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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 6816972" data-attributes="member: 23751"><p>Maybe you're misrepresent what he said slightly, but as you just worded it, I'm someone who can factually call him wrong. Pre-authored =/= pinball. That's a fact. Now, if he is really just saying that he has just experienced the pinball effect in the few pre-authored games that he has played in, and isn't extending that statement out to all pre-authored games, I have nothing to contradict. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's a False Dichotomy. The DM could use both methods in any measurements of the two. In fact, I think I've rarely seen a DM who does use outcomes of action independently of die rolls. Even if something unknown to the players is involved, the result still takes the player die rolls into account. The unknown (hidden backstory) doesn't determine the result of the actions, it just adds to what both the players and the DM can draw on for the narration. If there is going to be a symbol on a shield, I can draw upon the pre-authored content and use the symbol of the Flaming Fists, rather than just having to come up with something on the fly. The outcome of the roll is the same.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I haven't been trying to contradict you at any point in this discussion. I've just been telling you that my method isn't as bad as you are making it out to be. You may not like it, but it isn't what you have been saying. I may be misunderstanding you, but as you are writing your responses, you seem to be misunderstanding/misstating things.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Fail forward is independent of our playstyles. You can use it, and I can use it. Pre-authorship doesn't stop fail forward. Even if it was invented for your playstyle, that doesn't preclude its use in other styles.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 6816972, member: 23751"] Maybe you're misrepresent what he said slightly, but as you just worded it, I'm someone who can factually call him wrong. Pre-authored =/= pinball. That's a fact. Now, if he is really just saying that he has just experienced the pinball effect in the few pre-authored games that he has played in, and isn't extending that statement out to all pre-authored games, I have nothing to contradict. That's a False Dichotomy. The DM could use both methods in any measurements of the two. In fact, I think I've rarely seen a DM who does use outcomes of action independently of die rolls. Even if something unknown to the players is involved, the result still takes the player die rolls into account. The unknown (hidden backstory) doesn't determine the result of the actions, it just adds to what both the players and the DM can draw on for the narration. If there is going to be a symbol on a shield, I can draw upon the pre-authored content and use the symbol of the Flaming Fists, rather than just having to come up with something on the fly. The outcome of the roll is the same. I haven't been trying to contradict you at any point in this discussion. I've just been telling you that my method isn't as bad as you are making it out to be. You may not like it, but it isn't what you have been saying. I may be misunderstanding you, but as you are writing your responses, you seem to be misunderstanding/misstating things. Fail forward is independent of our playstyles. You can use it, and I can use it. Pre-authorship doesn't stop fail forward. Even if it was invented for your playstyle, that doesn't preclude its use in other styles. [/QUOTE]
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