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<blockquote data-quote="sheadunne" data-source="post: 6819969" data-attributes="member: 27570"><p>Maybe, I'm not entire sure it can be divorced that easily, although I agree completely about the dueling anecdotes. </p><p></p><p>For me though, the play experiences are the most valuable part (show don't tell). When we divorce the play antidotes from the discussion, we're left with examples that tend to move to the extreme sides of the spectrum. It does as well with antidotes, but I find if there are game systems included with them, I can see the play experience more clearly.</p><p></p><p>I do think that without lots of experience with a play style or system, the discussions aren't very productive. I can site lots of examples from my years playing Danger Patrol, but I'm not sure how many people have played it or even know about it. I've read DITV and BW but haven't played either. I have some short experiences with FATE, Savage Worlds, Dungeon World, but can't speak from a multi-year framework. About the only thing we probably all have in common is that we've played some version of D&D, but even that system differs between editions. So I agree that system can be a deterrent to a discussion of play style, I'm not sure how you go about it without it. Most of the discussion in this thread has steamed from examples provided (some system neutral but I think most people are assuming X system when they talk about it and it's causing confusion, at least for me).</p><p></p><p>Then there's the terminology issues, such as those using Forge language and those using everyday language. The forge language sounds very condescending, especially if you're not familiar with it. I think many posters here have been very patient with each other, but I'm also starting to see things breaking down. I think that for the most part you, [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION], [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION], among others have done a good job stating your opinions, fairly patiently, but others, probably myself included, have been less able. </p><p></p><p>On a side note, but going back to the thread subject matter: I can't recall a play experience, where the intent has been no pre-authoring and the system is designed for it, that has railroaded anyone, although I have seen it grind to a halt in a second when the GM freezes (which happens a lot in my experience when either the GM isn't completely comfortable in the style, or the game has proceeded past the GM's point of creativity for the session). This is much less the case in pre-authored styles of play. I'm running an occasional CoC game that I haven't pre-authored anything for, but I still find myself nudging the players in the directions I want them to go, due to the nature of the genre and the system itself. Mysteries are harder for me to run in Improv but I think that's due to the genre and the exceptions of the game. I could be wrong and am just not very good at it. I might feel more successful using another system like Gumshoe, but I'm not overly familiar with it so I stuck with what I grew up on. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="sheadunne, post: 6819969, member: 27570"] Maybe, I'm not entire sure it can be divorced that easily, although I agree completely about the dueling anecdotes. For me though, the play experiences are the most valuable part (show don't tell). When we divorce the play antidotes from the discussion, we're left with examples that tend to move to the extreme sides of the spectrum. It does as well with antidotes, but I find if there are game systems included with them, I can see the play experience more clearly. I do think that without lots of experience with a play style or system, the discussions aren't very productive. I can site lots of examples from my years playing Danger Patrol, but I'm not sure how many people have played it or even know about it. I've read DITV and BW but haven't played either. I have some short experiences with FATE, Savage Worlds, Dungeon World, but can't speak from a multi-year framework. About the only thing we probably all have in common is that we've played some version of D&D, but even that system differs between editions. So I agree that system can be a deterrent to a discussion of play style, I'm not sure how you go about it without it. Most of the discussion in this thread has steamed from examples provided (some system neutral but I think most people are assuming X system when they talk about it and it's causing confusion, at least for me). Then there's the terminology issues, such as those using Forge language and those using everyday language. The forge language sounds very condescending, especially if you're not familiar with it. I think many posters here have been very patient with each other, but I'm also starting to see things breaking down. I think that for the most part you, [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION], [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION], among others have done a good job stating your opinions, fairly patiently, but others, probably myself included, have been less able. On a side note, but going back to the thread subject matter: I can't recall a play experience, where the intent has been no pre-authoring and the system is designed for it, that has railroaded anyone, although I have seen it grind to a halt in a second when the GM freezes (which happens a lot in my experience when either the GM isn't completely comfortable in the style, or the game has proceeded past the GM's point of creativity for the session). This is much less the case in pre-authored styles of play. I'm running an occasional CoC game that I haven't pre-authored anything for, but I still find myself nudging the players in the directions I want them to go, due to the nature of the genre and the system itself. Mysteries are harder for me to run in Improv but I think that's due to the genre and the exceptions of the game. I could be wrong and am just not very good at it. I might feel more successful using another system like Gumshoe, but I'm not overly familiar with it so I stuck with what I grew up on. :) [/QUOTE]
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