Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Failing Rolls
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="nameless" data-source="post: 4288922" data-attributes="member: 1543"><p>I am, and I am sure many of you are, a tactical gamer at heart. I love seeing a good plan come together. I don't want to speak too soon for a new edition, but compared to 3.5, 4E introduces a lot more randomness into the game.</p><p></p><p>Many, many splatbooks made 3.5 a breeze to find options to specialize your character. If I wanted to be obscenely good at a skill, or combine effects to make a spell or magic item a specialty, or even set up situational bonuses for myself, I was able to create a character who was "ahead of the curve" in that area. With that type of specialization, the game lets you play to your strengths, your opponents play to your weaknesses, and conflict (combat or not) ends up usually being a matter of who can adapt to the opponent's advantages better.</p><p></p><p>One of the biggest enablers of that type of strategic play is a reasonable certainty of success. In 3.5, things like surprise, terrain, and distance could tip the odds enough in your favor (or against it) that victory wasn't a matter of dice so much as a matter of tactics. In a fair fight, the dice are king, but in an unfair fight, dice take a back seat.</p><p></p><p>In 4E, it looks like this mindset has been deliberately eliminated. Bonuses and penalties to every roll are severely limited. The curve is only 1 or 2 points below the absolute specialist maximum (excepting a couple of paradigm-breaking limited abilities) in every area, and the default odds are usually a 55/45ish split between success and failure. Getting a +4 to your roll (a gigantic bonus in 4E terms) that you are already top-of-the-line at only kicks you up to a 75% chance of success. The sliding scale of DCs, ACs, saves, and attack bonuses means that you never become really good at anything, you just keep pace with your challenges.</p><p></p><p>Does anyone else think that relying too much on the dice reduces the drama or immersion in the game? If they players aren't certain that their bread-and-butter abilities will reliably work, how can they act like confident heroes? Succeeding at incredible tasks is certainly heroic, but failing at mundane ones is much more non-heroic. What part of the mindset for 4E am I missing?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="nameless, post: 4288922, member: 1543"] I am, and I am sure many of you are, a tactical gamer at heart. I love seeing a good plan come together. I don't want to speak too soon for a new edition, but compared to 3.5, 4E introduces a lot more randomness into the game. Many, many splatbooks made 3.5 a breeze to find options to specialize your character. If I wanted to be obscenely good at a skill, or combine effects to make a spell or magic item a specialty, or even set up situational bonuses for myself, I was able to create a character who was "ahead of the curve" in that area. With that type of specialization, the game lets you play to your strengths, your opponents play to your weaknesses, and conflict (combat or not) ends up usually being a matter of who can adapt to the opponent's advantages better. One of the biggest enablers of that type of strategic play is a reasonable certainty of success. In 3.5, things like surprise, terrain, and distance could tip the odds enough in your favor (or against it) that victory wasn't a matter of dice so much as a matter of tactics. In a fair fight, the dice are king, but in an unfair fight, dice take a back seat. In 4E, it looks like this mindset has been deliberately eliminated. Bonuses and penalties to every roll are severely limited. The curve is only 1 or 2 points below the absolute specialist maximum (excepting a couple of paradigm-breaking limited abilities) in every area, and the default odds are usually a 55/45ish split between success and failure. Getting a +4 to your roll (a gigantic bonus in 4E terms) that you are already top-of-the-line at only kicks you up to a 75% chance of success. The sliding scale of DCs, ACs, saves, and attack bonuses means that you never become really good at anything, you just keep pace with your challenges. Does anyone else think that relying too much on the dice reduces the drama or immersion in the game? If they players aren't certain that their bread-and-butter abilities will reliably work, how can they act like confident heroes? Succeeding at incredible tasks is certainly heroic, but failing at mundane ones is much more non-heroic. What part of the mindset for 4E am I missing? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Failing Rolls
Top