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Failing saves is...ok?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 7199665" data-attributes="member: 6778044"><p>So you're really talking about adventure and game design more than whether a saving throw or failed skill check is the problem.</p><p></p><p>But some people like the idea that there's a nearly impossible dungeon, and that they <em>might</em> be the ones to complete it (and might not). The gorgon is a cool example. It's super difficult, and the evidence of its deadliness is all around you. There must be some reason why the PCs are there, and risking their lives, and if they are lucky, at least one of them will survive to help the others. Of course, in our campaign it would also encourage planning ahead, perhaps purchasing or having manufactured some potions of protection against petrification, and a few scrolls of spells to reverse it, etc. I don't see any real need to change the nature of the gorgon's petrification, although your solution could make for an interesting encounter and I don't want to imply that it doesn't.</p><p></p><p>I try to avoid "boss fights" and "world is destroyed" in my campaign as a whole. Doesn't mean the first doesn't exist, but it's not a common encounter for the PCs. At least not in the way the BBEG approach has evolved.</p><p></p><p>It also has to do with expectations. My starter adventures for first time players in my campaign have a variety of challenge levels, up to a 100% chance of TPK if they don't heed the warnings and push too far. If they don't heed my session 0 warnings that I, as the DM, won't be protecting them from significant danger and near sure death situations should they choose to pursue them, they understand it early on. The world is not designed as a "fun" place for adventurers. That dragon that's 1,500 years old? Yeah, it's still alive for a reason. And while like Smaug, there's a chance that it will fall, and perhaps even to these PCs, it won't be easy. And as often as not, they will either run away (or some of them anyway), or die. That's the risk of taking on a dragon in my world. Of course, higher level characters have a better chance of survival, but mid-level characters have succeeded where high level have failed. Being smart and prepared is much more important than raw power.</p><p></p><p>If the group understands that, and we're on the same page, then success is that much sweeter.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ilbranteloth, post: 7199665, member: 6778044"] So you're really talking about adventure and game design more than whether a saving throw or failed skill check is the problem. But some people like the idea that there's a nearly impossible dungeon, and that they [I]might[/I] be the ones to complete it (and might not). The gorgon is a cool example. It's super difficult, and the evidence of its deadliness is all around you. There must be some reason why the PCs are there, and risking their lives, and if they are lucky, at least one of them will survive to help the others. Of course, in our campaign it would also encourage planning ahead, perhaps purchasing or having manufactured some potions of protection against petrification, and a few scrolls of spells to reverse it, etc. I don't see any real need to change the nature of the gorgon's petrification, although your solution could make for an interesting encounter and I don't want to imply that it doesn't. I try to avoid "boss fights" and "world is destroyed" in my campaign as a whole. Doesn't mean the first doesn't exist, but it's not a common encounter for the PCs. At least not in the way the BBEG approach has evolved. It also has to do with expectations. My starter adventures for first time players in my campaign have a variety of challenge levels, up to a 100% chance of TPK if they don't heed the warnings and push too far. If they don't heed my session 0 warnings that I, as the DM, won't be protecting them from significant danger and near sure death situations should they choose to pursue them, they understand it early on. The world is not designed as a "fun" place for adventurers. That dragon that's 1,500 years old? Yeah, it's still alive for a reason. And while like Smaug, there's a chance that it will fall, and perhaps even to these PCs, it won't be easy. And as often as not, they will either run away (or some of them anyway), or die. That's the risk of taking on a dragon in my world. Of course, higher level characters have a better chance of survival, but mid-level characters have succeeded where high level have failed. Being smart and prepared is much more important than raw power. If the group understands that, and we're on the same page, then success is that much sweeter. [/QUOTE]
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