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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7200560" data-attributes="member: 996">There's 'starting to work against' and there's falling off the cliff.&nbsp; No Expertise feats?&nbsp; Fine, you're hitting on a 12 or 14 at Epic instead of an 11 at Heroic.&nbsp; You'll notice, but you're still perfectly viable, either along-side those who have the feats, or if no PC gets 'em.&nbsp; &nbsp; And, that's trying to hit effing Exarchs and god-killing abominations left over from the Dawn War.&nbsp;&nbsp; Not vs a lich casually tossing one of his lower-level spells at you, not vs the same thing that Frightened you at first level.&nbsp;The options to do so aren't great and come with considerable opportunity cost.&nbsp; Feats are supposed to be 'big,' remember, if you're blowing a feat on making a save better, it should be good, not go from hopeless to merely bad.&nbsp;Ironically, I'd rather not be.&nbsp; &nbsp;Under BA you should be able to do just that, especially to a party that could tackle that kind of CR.&nbsp;There's a lot of room on the d20 between 'only on a natural 20' and 'easily.'</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7200560, member: 996"] There's 'starting to work against' and there's falling off the cliff. No Expertise feats? Fine, you're hitting on a 12 or 14 at Epic instead of an 11 at Heroic. You'll notice, but you're still perfectly viable, either along-side those who have the feats, or if no PC gets 'em. And, that's trying to hit effing Exarchs and god-killing abominations left over from the Dawn War. Not vs a lich casually tossing one of his lower-level spells at you, not vs the same thing that Frightened you at first level. The options to do so aren't great and come with considerable opportunity cost. Feats are supposed to be 'big,' remember, if you're blowing a feat on making a save better, it should be good, not go from hopeless to merely bad. Ironically, I'd rather not be. Under BA you should be able to do just that, especially to a party that could tackle that kind of CR. There's a lot of room on the d20 between 'only on a natural 20' and 'easily.' [/QUOTE]

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