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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 7202864" data-attributes="member: 6787650">How is that relevant to supporting your claim that 5E makes the fighter "much more vulnerable to failed saves"?Eh, maybe. I was young munchkin enough back then that I don't want to draw any inferences from the way I ran the game (which involved high stats and intrinsic abilities but not many magic items, since those magic items would just roasted off you anyway by the first failed save vs. Fireball), but even if Conan only dies 5% of the time against that 3rd level priest, 5E's 0% chance of death is still not making 5E Conan "much more vulnerable" than 1E Conan. Quite the contrary.Again, if you choose to abandon bounded accuracy and use only high-level foes against a high-level party, that's on you as the adventure designer. That isn't 5E's fault. The guy who invented the term "bounded accuracy" <a href="http://bluishcertainty.blogspot.com/2016/06/bounded-accuracy.html" target="_blank">said so</a>.Even if you do choose to use only high-level foes, you're still not "much more vulnerable to failed saves" because the 5E consequences aren't all that bad. Again, in 1E, a failed save vs. Charm Person could mean you were permanently enslaved/subverted/whatever. (That's how Bigby originated--as an NPC Charmed by Mordenkainen.) In 5E, it means you can't directly attack the guy who charmed you. In 1E, a failed save vs. Hold Person took you out of the rest of the whole encounter and possibly led to insta-death; in 5E it prevents you from acting and makes you take double damage, maybe, next round. In 1E, a failed save vs. Polymorph Other forced a system shock roll which had a pretty decent shot at insta-killing you (20-30% would be typical, plus another 20-30% chance at death when the Polymorph ends, if ever), and you stayed in that other form (e.g. frog's body) long-term, and had a chance of losing your own mind and personality eventually; in 5E you are transformed for a maximum of one hour, have no chance of insta-death, and in fact even get extra HP while polymorphed that don't count against your real HP.It's generally true that PCs playing with a DM who doesn't respect bounded accuracy will have a higher probability of failing saves in 5E, but they are not "much more vulnerable to a failed save" than they were in 1E. Quite the contrary.If you want to prove your claim you need to stop talking about numbers in a vacuum and start talking about actual consequences to which 5E PCs are vulnerable on a failed save.</blockquote>

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