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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Failing to meet prestige class requirements
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<blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 2686546" data-attributes="member: 141"><p>Before considering prestige classes, let's review the core base classes for a moment. Druids and Paladins lose all their abilities if they no longer meet their alignment prerequisites. Monks, bards do not lose their abilities, but can no longer advance in that class. Barbarians lose the ability to rage, but are otherwise like monks and bards. Clerics lose their powers until they get a new patron, but they would otherwise be more like druids or paladins; they can't function if their alignment is incompatible with their patron.</p><p></p><p>Many prestige classes have alignment requirements, but some of those don't say what happens if the character's alignment changes. This is a genuine lacuna in the rules. It really should say in the DMG what happens, but it doesn't. And I have trouble accepting the notion that nothing special happens. It strains my rules sense that a class that requires a LG alignment and grants powers complementary to that of a paladin will function without change even if the paladin character becomes CE. </p><p></p><p>In the absence of a rule like CW 16, a DM would have to rule on a case by case basis what happens when a character no longer meets the alignment prerequisite of a prestige class. The DM would have to think if the class should be treated harshly, like a paladin, or gently, like a bard. With CW 16 the default rule is that they are treated harshly.</p><p></p><p>This is, I think, a wise rule. It is easier for a DM to give the player's a break than to be harsher than the RAW. If a DM thinks that failure to meet a prerequisite should simply result in not being able to advance any further, then he can so rule. If he wants to remove a few abilities (analogously with the barbarian) then he can do that too. But the rules back him up if he thinks it is inappropriate for any special ability of the class to be retained. In extreme cases it can rule out abuses by the player. Not that this is happening here, but it could be a factor in other cases.</p><p></p><p>I think the CW 16 rule practically has to be overruled in various circumstances. The 10th level dragon disciple is the most obvious case. It would be better if each prestige class said what happened to ex-members of the class, but, barring such information, a harsh rule like CW 16 is the best alternative.</p><p></p><p>This is the rules forum, and the correct rule (CW 16) has been pointed out. I am just pointing out that it is appropriate (and sometimes necessary) for CW 16 to be overruled by a DM. From what you are describing, this may be such a time. However, unlike the case of the 10th level dragon disciple, I don't think that the DM is required to give you a break. It's up to him to decide what the metaphysics of the class are, and if somehow the personal attention of Shar is required, then a change from evil can block access to the granted powers. Shar might not even be required; there might be some sort of "evil insight" that is needed by the character to make things work. Or some sort of "evil will" that taps into some dark wellspring of power. I don't know- those kind of flavor requirements are specific to a campaign.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cheiromancer, post: 2686546, member: 141"] Before considering prestige classes, let's review the core base classes for a moment. Druids and Paladins lose all their abilities if they no longer meet their alignment prerequisites. Monks, bards do not lose their abilities, but can no longer advance in that class. Barbarians lose the ability to rage, but are otherwise like monks and bards. Clerics lose their powers until they get a new patron, but they would otherwise be more like druids or paladins; they can't function if their alignment is incompatible with their patron. Many prestige classes have alignment requirements, but some of those don't say what happens if the character's alignment changes. This is a genuine lacuna in the rules. It really should say in the DMG what happens, but it doesn't. And I have trouble accepting the notion that nothing special happens. It strains my rules sense that a class that requires a LG alignment and grants powers complementary to that of a paladin will function without change even if the paladin character becomes CE. In the absence of a rule like CW 16, a DM would have to rule on a case by case basis what happens when a character no longer meets the alignment prerequisite of a prestige class. The DM would have to think if the class should be treated harshly, like a paladin, or gently, like a bard. With CW 16 the default rule is that they are treated harshly. This is, I think, a wise rule. It is easier for a DM to give the player's a break than to be harsher than the RAW. If a DM thinks that failure to meet a prerequisite should simply result in not being able to advance any further, then he can so rule. If he wants to remove a few abilities (analogously with the barbarian) then he can do that too. But the rules back him up if he thinks it is inappropriate for any special ability of the class to be retained. In extreme cases it can rule out abuses by the player. Not that this is happening here, but it could be a factor in other cases. I think the CW 16 rule practically has to be overruled in various circumstances. The 10th level dragon disciple is the most obvious case. It would be better if each prestige class said what happened to ex-members of the class, but, barring such information, a harsh rule like CW 16 is the best alternative. This is the rules forum, and the correct rule (CW 16) has been pointed out. I am just pointing out that it is appropriate (and sometimes necessary) for CW 16 to be overruled by a DM. From what you are describing, this may be such a time. However, unlike the case of the 10th level dragon disciple, I don't think that the DM is required to give you a break. It's up to him to decide what the metaphysics of the class are, and if somehow the personal attention of Shar is required, then a change from evil can block access to the granted powers. Shar might not even be required; there might be some sort of "evil insight" that is needed by the character to make things work. Or some sort of "evil will" that taps into some dark wellspring of power. I don't know- those kind of flavor requirements are specific to a campaign. [/QUOTE]
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