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Fairy tale logic vs naturalism in fantasy RPGing
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<blockquote data-quote="Aenghus" data-source="post: 6986466" data-attributes="member: 2656"><p>I don't quite agree as the DM is the one who places (or doesn't place) player accessible handles in their game, and frames the initial situation and exposition. A naturalistic presentation can presented in a way that suggests lots of viable options for the players, making immediate action possible, or a complex situation with no obvious initial approach and lots of dangers suggested for any failure. Hidden backstory generally makes decision making more difficult for players - even when it doesn't exist, the possibility of its existence will often make them less willing to engage for fear of being run over by the plotmonster.</p><p></p><p>Whereas fairy tale logic can be entirely inaccessible to the players if not explained or illustrated, or if handles for the PCs aren't provided, or if the players reject it. Fairy tales have lots of railroading. It could be a case of making the PCs a powerless audience while they watch the NPCs enact a scene necessary to the story. (That suggests a potentially interesting story where the PCs derail a story and watch the world start to unwind around them, doomed unless they complete the story. Naturally the PCs are trapped in the story so they can't just walk away.)</p><p></p><p>Or are you conflating the common situation where naturalistic games often don't have any PC script immunity with naturalism itself?</p><p></p><p>I think it comes down to expectations to some extent. Players desiring naturalism may be upset by fairly tale logic, and vice versa.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Or action movie logic resolution, depending on how it's framed. Complex talky problems get interrupted/replaced by fight scenes. Faerie tales tend to shorten depictions of violence in favour of dialogue and use lots of plot devices, maguffins and deus ex machinas. The latter are less accessible to PCs due to the problem of handling exposition for them, and getting player buy-in. Faerie-tale foes are often ludicrously powerful, and can only be defeated by exploiting their weakness, which is a dangerous state of affairs when players can refuse to accept the plot devices offered, or fail to use them "correctly". What's crystal clear to the DM can be as opaque as mud to the players.</p><p></p><p>Fairy tale logic probably needs improvisation techniques to ensure the PCs have some agency and I think PC access to the narrative could help it, given receptive players.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aenghus, post: 6986466, member: 2656"] I don't quite agree as the DM is the one who places (or doesn't place) player accessible handles in their game, and frames the initial situation and exposition. A naturalistic presentation can presented in a way that suggests lots of viable options for the players, making immediate action possible, or a complex situation with no obvious initial approach and lots of dangers suggested for any failure. Hidden backstory generally makes decision making more difficult for players - even when it doesn't exist, the possibility of its existence will often make them less willing to engage for fear of being run over by the plotmonster. Whereas fairy tale logic can be entirely inaccessible to the players if not explained or illustrated, or if handles for the PCs aren't provided, or if the players reject it. Fairy tales have lots of railroading. It could be a case of making the PCs a powerless audience while they watch the NPCs enact a scene necessary to the story. (That suggests a potentially interesting story where the PCs derail a story and watch the world start to unwind around them, doomed unless they complete the story. Naturally the PCs are trapped in the story so they can't just walk away.) Or are you conflating the common situation where naturalistic games often don't have any PC script immunity with naturalism itself? I think it comes down to expectations to some extent. Players desiring naturalism may be upset by fairly tale logic, and vice versa. Or action movie logic resolution, depending on how it's framed. Complex talky problems get interrupted/replaced by fight scenes. Faerie tales tend to shorten depictions of violence in favour of dialogue and use lots of plot devices, maguffins and deus ex machinas. The latter are less accessible to PCs due to the problem of handling exposition for them, and getting player buy-in. Faerie-tale foes are often ludicrously powerful, and can only be defeated by exploiting their weakness, which is a dangerous state of affairs when players can refuse to accept the plot devices offered, or fail to use them "correctly". What's crystal clear to the DM can be as opaque as mud to the players. Fairy tale logic probably needs improvisation techniques to ensure the PCs have some agency and I think PC access to the narrative could help it, given receptive players. [/QUOTE]
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