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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6986932" data-attributes="member: 42582">In contrasting fairy tale logic with naturalism, I had in mind the examples (and similar examples) that I gave in my OP: trolls who live in their dens with no obvious means of (ecological, economic) support; Enchantresses who live in hidden castles with men-at-arms and luxurious banquest to serve to visiting knights, but (again) no obviouls or "logical" supply of money, food etc; elves whol similarly live in their forest homes singing songs of the elder ages all day.These sorts of places confront players with the standard tropes and challenges of a FRPG: trolls to kill; Enchantresses to outwit; elves to befriend - but they are not subject to the causal constraints of a naturalistic logic. This means (i) that the players can't engage them via (say) trying to starve them out, or disrupt their supply of food or funds, and that (ii) the GM has neither incentive (arising from verisimilitude) nor power (arising from the behind-the-scenes management of naturalistic causal logic) to change or destabilise the situation due to "off screen" causal considerations that are outside the players' power to control or predict.Elaborating on (i): the game will feel more like Gawain and the Green Knight and less like A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court.Elaborating on (ii): I'm assuming that the game has mechanics and everyone knows what they are. In fact, I was assuming D&D mechanics - so the reaction of the trolls or enchantress is determined using the appropriate reaction/Diplomacy/CHA mechanics; an attempt to beat up the trolls is resolved using the combat mechanics; etc.By "fairy tale logic" I'm not talking about departing from D&D. Part of the premise of my OP is that important elements of D&D design and playability, as well as the fantasy worlds which are typical to D&D play, depend upon what I have called fairy tal logic. Eg dungeoneering breaks down once you introduce "naturalism", because the players can't engage the dungeon (via scouting then raiding) in the way that Gygax advised them to.</blockquote>

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