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Fairy tale logic vs naturalism in fantasy RPGing
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<blockquote data-quote="innerdude" data-source="post: 6988735" data-attributes="member: 85870"><p>I'm trying to think of an example where the reverse of [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s original hypothesis is true----where "fairy tale" logic actually increases GM fiat, or GM control, rather than giving more narrative control to the players. </p><p></p><p>One area that seems to be the case is the creation of "McGuffins." In literature, McGuffins are part and parcel of "fairy tale" logic---that one ring you've heard of, that one witch's brew, that one strand of magical hair, that one lamp that releases the djinni . . . . Anything that symbolizes, "You can defeat the enemy that troubles you, but first you must find/collect/restore/destroy the Ancient Artifact of Mythic Properties!" </p><p></p><p>Yet McGuffins inherently play <em>against</em> player narrative control, because they assume that the characters in the game world, as expressed by the game's mechanics, will be incapable of defeating/destroying the antagonist. In early D&D, especially BECMI, this was probably true. (Prior to 3e, the only D&D I had ever played was BECMI). I doubt a 9th-level party of the "classic" 4 BECMI character classes would have a realistic shot at defeating a BECMI red dragon. </p><p></p><p>The entire first "adventure path" of Dragonlance plays off this stereotype---you can only defeat the black dragon Khisanth with the blue crystal staff. There's no assumption that a character, expressed mechanically, can go in and simply <em>use</em> the stuff on their character sheet to defeat an enemy of that scope. </p><p></p><p>I think 4e stands in an obvious contrast to this, as it posits quite heavily that if the GM has prepared a level-appropriate encounter, a group of five 4e PCs should be able to go in and defeat it simply with the stuff on their character sheet. Yet this is neither "fairy tale" logic nor "naturalist" logic, it's the logic of a <em>game</em> identifying a suitable <em>challenge</em> to be defeated. It's the logic of, "If I have prepared the correct set of feats and abilities, the group should be able to defeat this challenge, assuming we understand the nature of the challenge appropriately."</p><p></p><p>In fact, the more I think about it, if there's "fairy tale" logic to D&D at all, it arises from this third impulse---the need to create a suitable challenge to be defeated. It's not really about any sort of impulse, or drive to give players "narrative control." Fairy tale logic simply makes it easier to craft appropriate challenges, because you don't have to "logic" your way in to <em>why</em> a particular challenge exists.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="innerdude, post: 6988735, member: 85870"] I'm trying to think of an example where the reverse of [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s original hypothesis is true----where "fairy tale" logic actually increases GM fiat, or GM control, rather than giving more narrative control to the players. One area that seems to be the case is the creation of "McGuffins." In literature, McGuffins are part and parcel of "fairy tale" logic---that one ring you've heard of, that one witch's brew, that one strand of magical hair, that one lamp that releases the djinni . . . . Anything that symbolizes, "You can defeat the enemy that troubles you, but first you must find/collect/restore/destroy the Ancient Artifact of Mythic Properties!" Yet McGuffins inherently play [I]against[/I] player narrative control, because they assume that the characters in the game world, as expressed by the game's mechanics, will be incapable of defeating/destroying the antagonist. In early D&D, especially BECMI, this was probably true. (Prior to 3e, the only D&D I had ever played was BECMI). I doubt a 9th-level party of the "classic" 4 BECMI character classes would have a realistic shot at defeating a BECMI red dragon. The entire first "adventure path" of Dragonlance plays off this stereotype---you can only defeat the black dragon Khisanth with the blue crystal staff. There's no assumption that a character, expressed mechanically, can go in and simply [I]use[/I] the stuff on their character sheet to defeat an enemy of that scope. I think 4e stands in an obvious contrast to this, as it posits quite heavily that if the GM has prepared a level-appropriate encounter, a group of five 4e PCs should be able to go in and defeat it simply with the stuff on their character sheet. Yet this is neither "fairy tale" logic nor "naturalist" logic, it's the logic of a [I]game[/I] identifying a suitable [I]challenge[/I] to be defeated. It's the logic of, "If I have prepared the correct set of feats and abilities, the group should be able to defeat this challenge, assuming we understand the nature of the challenge appropriately." In fact, the more I think about it, if there's "fairy tale" logic to D&D at all, it arises from this third impulse---the need to create a suitable challenge to be defeated. It's not really about any sort of impulse, or drive to give players "narrative control." Fairy tale logic simply makes it easier to craft appropriate challenges, because you don't have to "logic" your way in to [I]why[/I] a particular challenge exists. [/QUOTE]
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