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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6989455" data-attributes="member: 6696971">There have been some posts positioning "fairy tale logic" as being unintuitive or a barrier to sensible player action declaration by inference (and therefore injurious to certain folks ability to immerse).  That may be the case for some players, I do not doubt, but I know for a fact that the genre logic of fairy tales (a) is intuitive to some players who are invested in them and (b) enhances immersion to those same players.  So I went back real quick to "the chamberlain, the king and the dragon" to take a look at a particular fairy tale component of the game.  After Thurgon and Theren make the great leap across the recently ruined breezeway to the king's chambers (courtesy of a catapulted boulder from the active city siege), the climax takes place where the dark fey forces possessing the absent king are cast out and defeated.  We were one bad roll from failure so it was pretty tight!Roughly abridged below:The players move to him to ascertain the nature of his ailment/haunting.  Pemerton's Paladin (intuitively) lays his divine hands upon his beloved king, casting out the possessing entity.  Night Hag's are, of course, shapeshifters who mentally assail you, haunt your dreams and waste you away in the process (eg Grima Wormtongue on Theoden).  The 4e version has a Shapeshifting Utility, a Claw attack, a Wave of Sleep attack that renders dazed then unconscious, and then the following:The players stand in defense of the king to mentally shield him (This was with achieved with a successful Group Endurance Check...basically the equivalent of the Defend Move using hold to * Redirect an attack from the thing you defend to yourself.), taking the blow.  Within the fiction, their consciousness is rent into a terrible disturbing dream.The response?The Night Hag is shunted from the minds of the heroes and left with the dim prospects of physical confrontation.  Her(insufficient) claws are not up to the task and she is quickly slain.  The king is saved, but the kingdom is far from it.That exchange is mostly underwritten by fairy tale and romantic fantasy logic, yet the players were able to intuit/deduce sensible action declarations and mechanically imprint genre coherent results upon the fiction.  If they failed, then it would be my opportunity to change things adversely using fairy tale/romantic fantasy logic (or close the scene with the king's death and attendant fallout should it be the final failure of the challenge).</blockquote>

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