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Fairy tale logic vs naturalism in fantasy RPGing
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<blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 6994053" data-attributes="member: 6677017"><p>Can you give an example of how this would play out? From the play example earlier in the thread, I got the impression that if you succeed in the task resolution mechanic, you are given a great deal of narrative control over the result. That's primarily what I'm addressing. I just don't think it's very easy to address the premises unless we separate out that component. They're two different axes that a play example can be situation on. We need to settle on the same X coordinate for both situations if we are going to discuss the Y coordinates. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>An element that seems to be pulling a lot of the weight, if I'm reading things right, is the lack of downtime play. Stories are paced in scenes, so it is really easy to say, "after traveling for a few days", or "when you arrive", or even for extra fun "meanwhile..."</p><p></p><p>Now, it's perfectly possible to run an episodic campaign with little downtime where everything is either a significant scene, or not worth mentioning. I'm aiming for exactly that in one of my D&D campaigns, though I usually keep my D&D more as a history of the party's lives, because my players naturally play that way. Yes, they enjoy going shopping and going out to eat in-character. (Once, an NPC merchant I was portraying convinced a PC to buy a mundane, but well-made and cool-looking, rapier when he was trying to save money and had no intention of doing so; and we regularly make ourselves hungry with in-game food.)</p><p></p><p>If there is buy-in from the players that the campaign is focused an episodic like that, than you aren't likely to have as many issues. I just don't take that as an assumed style of play, because most games probably fall somewhere between the extreme examples.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think I see what you're saying here. I'll just reference you to the examples I gave though. Since fairy tale logic is surreal, each person at the table's version of it is probably going to differ more than each person's version of how gravity works in general. Disagreements about gravity in D&D are a classic, but they don't usually involve, "What do you mean he falls <em>down!?</em> He clearly just betrayed his evil master and turned back to the cause of good. When he stepped off of that cliff, he should have fallen straight up to the heavens!"</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Abolutely! It's another spectrum that shouldn't be confused with the naturalistic logic or fairy tale logic spectrum.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yet another spectrum, rules weight and degree of application! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Generally anything that stops the game isn't that great unless everyone is enjoying it. Verisimilitude and fidelity to setting might very well be an important element in what makes some games fun, and neglecting them could negatively impact that fun just as much as pausing the game for a discussion about math or physics. Personally I like to keep the game going, because it usually isn't too hard to fix potential inconsistencies by filling in previously undefined background information (I mean, people do that all the time with any sort of book, movie, or comic franchise), and I'm okay with a retcon if it absolutely can't be avoided. But I think avoiding the sort of situation you mentioned is a skill that comes with practice.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sword of Spirit, post: 6994053, member: 6677017"] Can you give an example of how this would play out? From the play example earlier in the thread, I got the impression that if you succeed in the task resolution mechanic, you are given a great deal of narrative control over the result. That's primarily what I'm addressing. I just don't think it's very easy to address the premises unless we separate out that component. They're two different axes that a play example can be situation on. We need to settle on the same X coordinate for both situations if we are going to discuss the Y coordinates. :) An element that seems to be pulling a lot of the weight, if I'm reading things right, is the lack of downtime play. Stories are paced in scenes, so it is really easy to say, "after traveling for a few days", or "when you arrive", or even for extra fun "meanwhile..." Now, it's perfectly possible to run an episodic campaign with little downtime where everything is either a significant scene, or not worth mentioning. I'm aiming for exactly that in one of my D&D campaigns, though I usually keep my D&D more as a history of the party's lives, because my players naturally play that way. Yes, they enjoy going shopping and going out to eat in-character. (Once, an NPC merchant I was portraying convinced a PC to buy a mundane, but well-made and cool-looking, rapier when he was trying to save money and had no intention of doing so; and we regularly make ourselves hungry with in-game food.) If there is buy-in from the players that the campaign is focused an episodic like that, than you aren't likely to have as many issues. I just don't take that as an assumed style of play, because most games probably fall somewhere between the extreme examples. I think I see what you're saying here. I'll just reference you to the examples I gave though. Since fairy tale logic is surreal, each person at the table's version of it is probably going to differ more than each person's version of how gravity works in general. Disagreements about gravity in D&D are a classic, but they don't usually involve, "What do you mean he falls [I]down!?[/I] He clearly just betrayed his evil master and turned back to the cause of good. When he stepped off of that cliff, he should have fallen straight up to the heavens!" Abolutely! It's another spectrum that shouldn't be confused with the naturalistic logic or fairy tale logic spectrum. Yet another spectrum, rules weight and degree of application! :) Generally anything that stops the game isn't that great unless everyone is enjoying it. Verisimilitude and fidelity to setting might very well be an important element in what makes some games fun, and neglecting them could negatively impact that fun just as much as pausing the game for a discussion about math or physics. Personally I like to keep the game going, because it usually isn't too hard to fix potential inconsistencies by filling in previously undefined background information (I mean, people do that all the time with any sort of book, movie, or comic franchise), and I'm okay with a retcon if it absolutely can't be avoided. But I think avoiding the sort of situation you mentioned is a skill that comes with practice. [/QUOTE]
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