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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Amphytrion" data-source="post: 9709816" data-attributes="member: 7046181">We've had this discussion before, and I find your position equally puzzling.The sentence doesn't stop at "from the gods", as your quoting would indicate. The full sentence goes on to add a restrictive clause: "Bahamut and Tiamat are ontologically distinct from the gods that hail from the Outer Planes.", which they are. In no part of that sentence is it ever stated that all gods come from the Outer Planes.Bahamut and Tiamat are gods from the Material Plane, and this distinction will have all sorts of metaphysical consequences (as described in Fizban's, e.g. dragonsight). In Fizban's alone, both Bahamut and Tiamat are referred to as gods many, many times. Fizban's even takes the time to clarify that the other Greatwyrms are not "dragon gods"--and "dragon gods" is precisely the terminology it uses for Bahamut and Tiamat. Publications since (DMG 2024, Dragon Delves) have also called both of them gods repeatedly.Not all gods hail from the Outer Planes, and the DMG 2024 confirms this. We do not need to resort to ascended examples to confirm this -- Beory, Greater Goddess from Greyhawk, is intrinsically from the Material Plane (she's Oerth itself).</blockquote>