Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Fallen Celestials and (the lack of) Ascended Fiends
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 7903745" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>I ran a Planescape adventure where a deva was teaching a group of lesser devils that their souls were not beyond redemption, and that through acts of sacrifice in the name of good, they could escape the Nine Hells. This involved the creation of a planar pathway called the Steep Ascent connecting the Nine Hells to Mount Celestia. </p><p></p><p>The devils struggled and were unable to grasp the essential concept of altruism – they could not conceive of a person being motivated by care for another's welfare and well-being. Basically, I leaned hard into exploring the philosophy of "enlightened self-interest" and the "tragedy of the commons." The question become if a devil thinks "I will not steal/kill/betray because if I steal/kill/betray then others may steal/kill/betray me and the creation of a thieving/murderous/treacherous society will likely hurt me", does that make the devil <strong><em>good</em></strong>?</p><p></p><p>I let my players answer. Their answer was "no, it doesn't, good demands more above and beyond fear of personal loss or maintaining the status quo." They confronted the deva, cast down the erinyes that was manipulating him, destroyed the Steep Ascent, and brought the deva back to Mount Celestia where he was tried and imprisoned. They were regaled as heroes, and there was no hope for devils to be redeemed (though the players would have said "there never was hope – they already baked their bread").</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 7903745, member: 20323"] I ran a Planescape adventure where a deva was teaching a group of lesser devils that their souls were not beyond redemption, and that through acts of sacrifice in the name of good, they could escape the Nine Hells. This involved the creation of a planar pathway called the Steep Ascent connecting the Nine Hells to Mount Celestia. The devils struggled and were unable to grasp the essential concept of altruism – they could not conceive of a person being motivated by care for another's welfare and well-being. Basically, I leaned hard into exploring the philosophy of "enlightened self-interest" and the "tragedy of the commons." The question become if a devil thinks "I will not steal/kill/betray because if I steal/kill/betray then others may steal/kill/betray me and the creation of a thieving/murderous/treacherous society will likely hurt me", does that make the devil [B][I]good[/I][/B]? I let my players answer. Their answer was "no, it doesn't, good demands more above and beyond fear of personal loss or maintaining the status quo." They confronted the deva, cast down the erinyes that was manipulating him, destroyed the Steep Ascent, and brought the deva back to Mount Celestia where he was tried and imprisoned. They were regaled as heroes, and there was no hope for devils to be redeemed (though the players would have said "there never was hope – they already baked their bread"). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Fallen Celestials and (the lack of) Ascended Fiends
Top