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Fallen Celestials / Risen Fiends
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3341645" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I think it quite clear that I bothered because I wanted to demonstrate that you were wrong. And I think that I did so. Mercy and forgiveness being exactly the same thing was not necessary for my point to stand, whereas I think your point collapses if I can only show that they have some direct relationship. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ahh, yes. I am naive and simple for supposing that a thing is the thing itself and not whatever one may wish to make of it in order to be comfortable with the idea. How vulgar of me. True intellectuals don't speak in terms of good and evil, n'est pas? So passé.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You are free to create whatever sort of cosmology amuses you. For my part, I think the game world is much less interesting if goodness is defined as not good, and evil is defined as not evil, and so forth. There is this strangely common conception that you are painting with a broader and more complex palatte if you only use shades of grey. How simple of you to paint things in black and white, it is said. For my part, I don't deny that there are shades of grey, but a pallette which does not have true black and true white is necessarily a subset of the one that does.</p><p></p><p>And as long as we are talking about fantasy, as long as we are taking the step incarnating ideas in bodies for the purpose of talking about the abstract in concrete ways, as long as we are bothering with unreality for the sake of talking about things that are difficult to pin down in the real world, it seems to me that in fantasy above all we'd not want to throw out the black and white precisely because fantasy is so well suited to it. But that's just me.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 3341645, member: 4937"] I think it quite clear that I bothered because I wanted to demonstrate that you were wrong. And I think that I did so. Mercy and forgiveness being exactly the same thing was not necessary for my point to stand, whereas I think your point collapses if I can only show that they have some direct relationship. Ahh, yes. I am naive and simple for supposing that a thing is the thing itself and not whatever one may wish to make of it in order to be comfortable with the idea. How vulgar of me. True intellectuals don't speak in terms of good and evil, n'est pas? So passé. You are free to create whatever sort of cosmology amuses you. For my part, I think the game world is much less interesting if goodness is defined as not good, and evil is defined as not evil, and so forth. There is this strangely common conception that you are painting with a broader and more complex palatte if you only use shades of grey. How simple of you to paint things in black and white, it is said. For my part, I don't deny that there are shades of grey, but a pallette which does not have true black and true white is necessarily a subset of the one that does. And as long as we are talking about fantasy, as long as we are taking the step incarnating ideas in bodies for the purpose of talking about the abstract in concrete ways, as long as we are bothering with unreality for the sake of talking about things that are difficult to pin down in the real world, it seems to me that in fantasy above all we'd not want to throw out the black and white precisely because fantasy is so well suited to it. But that's just me. [/QUOTE]
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