Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3344353" data-attributes="member: 4937">Once again, the definition of forgive:for·give  (fr-gv, fôr-)v. for·gave (-gv), for·giv·en (-gvn), for·giv·ing, for·gives v.tr.1. To excuse for a fault or an offense; pardon.2. To renounce anger or resentment against.3. To absolve from payment of (a debt, for example).In each of the specific definitions, to forgive means to excuse what is owed.  In #1, you are excusing the debt created by the injustice - a spiritual debt.  In #2, you are renouncing your right to avenge the fault - an emotional and personal debt.  In #3, you are renouncing your right to to physical restitution - a literal debt.   In each case you are forgiving a debt, either personal or on behalf of a group.  For example, when a magistrate gives a diminished sentense to a criminal or frees a criminal, he is using his authority as a magistrate to forgive on behalf of the society that instituted him.  There is no sense in which you can forgive unless thier is a debt and you have the authority to forgive it.If you are confused on this point, it is because people often use the word 'forgive' when they don't actually mean forgive because they do not actually wish to forgive.In the case of an celestial, it can offer forgiveness to the fallen fiend if it either was personally injured by the fiends crimes or if it is empowered by some authority to forgive on the behalf of others.You don't think evil acts impose a debt?Whoa there.  When did we move from forgiveness to acceptance?  Those are quite different concepts.  Forgiveness has far more to do with debts than acceptance.No, they are not.  This whole that's not good, that's 'law' thing is starting to be taken just a bit to far.  The concept that you can be empowered to forgive debts other than your own is a lawful concept.  A chaotic would never accept that anyone could forgiven anyone else for anything except thier own debts, but the concept of a debt is itself completely alignment neutral.  A debt is a physical concept which arises any time you have a principle of conservation in your system.  It has nothing to do with law and chaos above the level of the natural law, unless you think its impossible for chaotic beings to exist in a universe with natural laws of any sort which is going to run into problems.I don't know what you mean by that, but we could make a first approximation of good and evil by suggestion that the nuetral position is 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth', good is 'Less than an eye for an eye, and less than a tooth for a tooth' (mercy', and evil is 'more than an eye for an eye, and more than a tooth for a tooth' (ruthlessness).I didn't invent the language or the dictionary.At this point, I don't think I'm the one that is confused.Very true, and a good point, but I'm going to have to refrain from taking on this next point just yet.</blockquote>

Verification