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Falling from Great Heights
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<blockquote data-quote="Aaron" data-source="post: 5874023" data-attributes="member: 52548"><p>Why do you call them "metagame rules"?</p><p></p><p>If Mike Tyson thinks that he can easily defeat a dozen of 4 years old kids in a boxe fight, is he applying "metagame rules", or does he simply know what he can achieve?</p><p></p><p>The Snatch feat in 3.5 states:</p><p> <em>A snatched opponent held in the creature’s mouth is not allowed a <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#reflex" target="_blank">Reflex save</a> against the creature’s <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#breathWeapon" target="_blank">breath weapon</a>, if it has one. </em></p><p></p><p>This means that a frigging colossal dragon could hold a high level monk, with no armor whatsover, in his/her mouth, and breath acid/fire/youchoosewhat right on his face, with no saving throw allowed, and most high level PC would survive this attack.</p><p></p><p>Now, in <a href="http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/tandf/ghbi/2003/00000016/00000001/art00001" target="_blank">this link</a> I read that the maximum potential bite force of <em>T. rex</em> is between about 183,000 and 235,000 N for a bilateral bite (!), which is less than an ancient colossal wyrm, since the Trex bite is listed a 3d6, while the latter is listed as 4d8.</p><p></p><p>Now, I'm no physician, but I do remember being bitten by a medium sized dog, and it was painful. I don't want to imagine what such a bite could do to me.</p><p></p><p>But our high level PC could reasonably face the bite/grapple damage of the colossal dragon (of course including his Str modifier to damage), looking at the damage sustained after being bitten several times, no matter being held in his mouth.</p><p> </p><p>Now, this high level PC should also have suffered several crossbow bolts / bow arrows hit in his career, even direct hits while he was helpless, and would know what damage he could reasonably aspect from them, and he could compare them to the cited dragon.</p><p></p><p>Now, I really can't see why his expericence with the dragon and the bolts/arrows should be seen as metagame rules.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aaron, post: 5874023, member: 52548"] Why do you call them "metagame rules"? If Mike Tyson thinks that he can easily defeat a dozen of 4 years old kids in a boxe fight, is he applying "metagame rules", or does he simply know what he can achieve? The Snatch feat in 3.5 states: [I]A snatched opponent held in the creature’s mouth is not allowed a [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#reflex"]Reflex save[/URL] against the creature’s [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#breathWeapon"]breath weapon[/URL], if it has one. [/I] This means that a frigging colossal dragon could hold a high level monk, with no armor whatsover, in his/her mouth, and breath acid/fire/youchoosewhat right on his face, with no saving throw allowed, and most high level PC would survive this attack. Now, in [URL="http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/tandf/ghbi/2003/00000016/00000001/art00001"]this link[/URL] I read that the maximum potential bite force of [I]T. rex[/I] is between about 183,000 and 235,000 N for a bilateral bite (!), which is less than an ancient colossal wyrm, since the Trex bite is listed a 3d6, while the latter is listed as 4d8. Now, I'm no physician, but I do remember being bitten by a medium sized dog, and it was painful. I don't want to imagine what such a bite could do to me. But our high level PC could reasonably face the bite/grapple damage of the colossal dragon (of course including his Str modifier to damage), looking at the damage sustained after being bitten several times, no matter being held in his mouth. Now, this high level PC should also have suffered several crossbow bolts / bow arrows hit in his career, even direct hits while he was helpless, and would know what damage he could reasonably aspect from them, and he could compare them to the cited dragon. Now, I really can't see why his expericence with the dragon and the bolts/arrows should be seen as metagame rules. [/QUOTE]
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