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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elf Witch" data-source="post: 5874418" data-attributes="member: 9037">As someone who would like to see mooks made more deadly when in they are in mass I have never said that way of play should be the default but that there should be rules that allow me to play that style of game without a ton of house rules. They should be optional rules I am even willing to wait for a separate splat book on it. I was in the game that went to hades in a hand basket. As we approached the city the gates suddenly closed and archers with their bows ready to fire targeted us. Out through a side door the captain of the guard and some of his men came to confront us.At that point the DM had to excuse himself to take care of his child who had woken from a nightmare.So a out of character discussion started at the table over why this was happening. We knew we were not evil we had been told by our sponsor that we had to get in to the city and get an artifact to stop a demon from entering the world. What we didn't know at the time was that our sponsor wanted the artifact so he could summon the demon. He had an item that hid his alignment and we had failed our sense motive checks so we thought him a good guy.The city was actually protecting this artifact and had been warned that we were coming.So our metagame conversation went something like this. Look we can take these guys they can't be near our level not if the DM is doing it the way you are supposed to. I argued that our PCs wouldn't know that and that we should wait and talk to the guards. I pointed out that the city was known for its archers so that should give us pause. Yeah but they won't be near our level because if they were 25 would be to big a CR threat. Came the reply from the rules lawyer of our group. The DM came back and the action started the captain told us that we would not be allowed in the city because of our association with Mr Bad and that they would die to protect the artifact. I told the guard that he didn't understand what was at stake that the world was in danger. He replied well you can talk to the governor but you will have to surrender your weapons and your wizard  will have to wait here. Surrender weapons, split the party no way so instead of going off and talking about another way to get in the rogue of the party attacked the captain and rolled a crit and down he went. That triggered the archers to fire at us. And we ended up in a blood bath. I talked to the DM later and he was trying to set it up so we would start questioning what we had been told by Mr Bad. He never thought since we were a good party that we would kill the guards this way. He also thought we would have surrendered or left because of the archers. The way he described the area was it was a killing field with no cover for us. The archers were on the wall and we were in range. Everything some of them did that night was based on the metagame idea that as high level characters we couldn't be challenged by low level guards and because some of us knew the CR threat range really well they were able to guess that they had to be low level otherwise it would have been a fair challenge. Anyway I sometimes like to play in a game where PCs are not gods at high levels just well trained and very competent. I don't want them to guzzle poison just because they can or leap of a cliff just because they can or walk across acid pools or lava just because they can.</blockquote>

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