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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5875228" data-attributes="member: 22779">No, my point is that the characters in these movies have no thoughts at all.  Why?  Because they are fictional constructs.  You can roleplay being afraid all you like, but, at the end of the day, they never balk at doing the suicidal.  They jump out of the airplane, they close the door to the refrigerator (boo) and they take the swan dive down the chute rather than be taken prisoner by their newly discovered father.The heart of roleplay is portrayal.  I can portray that my character is scared out of his bleeding mind, but, at the end of the day, it is still the player who is going to make the choices.Never said anything about 4e, other than how 4e would resolve it.  Your choice to make the city guard similar level to the PC's is exactly how 4e would resolve the issue and, IMO, probably the best way of doing it.But, let's get back to the example here.  In an open fight between a 15th level party and a CR 15 dragon or any other creature for that matter, the party is expected to win.  Sure, it might be damaging, but, it's supposed to eat up about 20% of the party's resources.  By 15th level, the fighter should not be limited to the ground - he should have the resources to let him fly, at least for a while.  Heck, the cleric drops Air Walk (or whatever that spell is that lets you walk on air) on the party and now everyone can fly.What happens when 20-25 archers face that same dragon?  They die.  They die very, very quickly.  The dragon doesn't even lose hit points in all probability.  So, if you want you 20-25 archers to be a credible threat to the party, they have to be equal to a CR 15 creature.  That's the only way to do it.  Which is what you've done by upping their levels.  The main problem is that people want level to have some sort of in-game meaning.  Town guards are 3rd level warriors, simply because that satisfies a certain group's view of verisimilitude.  It doesn't make sense for town guards to be 13th level.  Why would they be 13th level and not the lord of the town?  And, if you insist that level has in game meaning, then this makes sense.  OTOH, if you accept that level is a meta-game construct, then there's no problem with scaling guards.  Guards are Party Level-2 because that makes for better in game fiction.  What are the guards when the party is not around?  Who cares?  If the DM wants the marauding orcs to pillage the town, they pillage the town.I think I just heard a simulationist break a tooth.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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