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Message: <blockquote data-quote="triqui" data-source="post: 5879372" data-attributes="member: 57948">I don't find it unbelievable. No more than the fight the manticore exists. What I find it, is unappropiate. Because the game is about a group of heroes that do heroic things. If those things can be done by ordinary men, then the entire game is flawed. Why would the Baron pay 1000g to a group of adventurers, when 50 militia could do the job for 2g each?  Then you aren't arguing about high levels being able to kill the guardsmen, but about hit points. That's a different debate. However, if your system give the PC something differnent that a huge pile of HP, so they win the day (as you fully expect), the metagaming would be the same. Imagine the system give them "heropoints" that they can spend, and success in a "dodge roll". Or whatever other mechanic you build to make them "fully expected to win the day". The players will metagame exactly the same. Instead of saying "we can take this down, we have 100hp" they'll say "we can take this down, we have 10 heropoints to dodge". The act remain the same: high level characters completelly obliterate a small army of militia. Not really. You can *change* it so it fulfill the prefference of your group, but the *base* story is what it is. A bunch of people, low level, that fight orcs and goblins and run when they face anything else.As an example: You could say so. However, Tolkien did not. It was a *baby* Troll. Not even a full developed one. Aragorn couldn't defeat any dragon, ancient or not. (and by the way, the dragons remaining are the weaker ones. The stronger epic ones lived in the ancient era). Aragorn can't defeat a Giant.  But if they were 20th level, they would had smashed it without effort. And they wouldn't had run from the Balor either. The team was not able to defeat any high level threat. Just orcs, and a wight (barely). Everything else was beyond his scope. That's because you keep thinking 5-6 levels is "little" and 10-11 level is "normal". It is not. That's why you don't see why 12th level warriors kill 12 militia, because you think Aragorn is 12th level, and he is not able to kill 12 archers. But Aragorn is not 12th level in terms of D&D, not by far.  Not true. The real Illiad book was written when Achilles was not invulnerable. The story about his skin being impossible to be pierced was actually built several centuries later. By the time Homer wrote about Achilles, he was NOT invulnerable. He was just the most badass warrior of all times. His only "power" was his anger. His anger was high enough to divert a river. That, and a huge martial skill that allowed him to fight entire armies and never be touched. However, I was refering the movie to give you a visual example of a high level fighter facing dozens of regular mobs in a belieavable fashion and not being concerned about it. Achilles was not supernatural in that movie. I could give you other examples, as Leonidas in 300. High "level" fighters (or rogues for that matter) don't fear mooks. Aragorn might do, but that's because Aragorn is not a high level fighter. Hector the Tamer of Horses (talking about the Illyad here) would beat Aragorn any day of the week. And he can't even *touch* Achilles. A system can't work properly for Achilles, Beowulf and Aragorn, or Jon Snow (who is even lower level than Aragorn, in D&D terms) at the same time. If the game is suited to allow the players to be Beowulf, Cuchulain or Bhima, then anything that means a threat for Jon Snow is just a joke for them. The solution is using the level system, and cap it. E6 is great at this. It does not allow PC to grow beyond the point of "human real possibilities", which is about level 6. Beowulf is well beyond that point. A human can not fight a sea monster for several days underwater.A 15th level fighter can beat the long jump world record while wearing a full plate. He is beyond normal humans possibilities. He is not concerned about jumping a 30' chasm in full plate, while should he be concerned about killing 12 peasants with 2 weeks military drill and a simple weapon?</blockquote>

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