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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 5884332" data-attributes="member: 2067">I don't think we'll need that much. Assuming we keep the maths that work from 4e, we'll have a very handy way to generate basic stats at any point. Given that, we can peg "default" monsters and treasure (and spells and even things like prestige classes or epic destinies) to a given tier. Orcus or the Terrasque or Lolth might be Epic Tier. Orcs might be Common Tier. Most dragons might ping at "Paragon" (or high Heroic). Magic items can work similarly: Resurrection and Polymorph might be Epic tier, while Fireball and Fly might be Heroic, and Teleportation hits more the Paragon.It's sort of self-defining. If you're fighting Orcus, or a mind flayer, or a dragon, you're not a common joe anymore. Common joes that go up against these things die like minions. Only those of close-to-equal power can hope to contend with these threats. Of course, you can start as a common joe who goes on to fight Orcus later, after becoming something more -- that particular arc is very commonin D&D gameplay. This is a feature. Dragons should kill townsfolk in droves. When you're strong enough to take on a dragon, you should be able to handle a dozen orcs.  It's also true that the difference between +5 and +6, while it may be a tier threshold, is not that big of a mechanical difference. If you have most dragons at Paragon tier (starting at, say, +11), you can still make them a tough fight for a party of Heroic-tier PC's (capping out at +10).Magic items work much the same way -- a sphere of annihilation is a bigger effect than a +1 longsword. You can also peg this to the spell lists -- something capable of granting a Wish might be Epic, something capable of dealing extra fire damage might be more like Heroic or even Common. All this needs is a little blurb in the stat block, like:Level: 10 (Heroic)orLevel: 21 (Epic)You could conceivably have a Level 21 (Common) item, but I imagine it would be something like a very strong potion (Potion of Polymorph?) or a ritual scroll capable of a big one-time effect (Scroll of Plane Shift?). Whereas a Level 21 (Epic) item might be more like the Armor of Achilles, or a Vorpal Sword.The advice is pretty simple. You clearly explain the tiers and what kind of vibe they're going for, and then you tell the DM how to award "levels" without awarding a "tier" (that is, give the party more spells, but not more powerful spells, or whatever). This is the basics of E6, and can be pretty easily grokked in a sentence or two, like:"When you gain a level after hitting the cap for your tier, you gain an additional ability, but your Level Bonus does not increase."For DM's, it might be:"Monsters have a level and a tier. PC parties can be considered to be balanced against threats in their own tier. Against lower-tier enemies, PC's are more effective. Against higher-tier enemies, PC's are less effective."And:"Magic items have a level and a tier. PC's are generally good matches for treasures in their own tier. If you give them something from a lower tier, it might be hawked at the nearest pawn shop. If you give them something from a higher tier, it might make them more powerful than most of the encounters assume."I think of it as just sort of codifying what groups are doing informally, anyway. That group that starts over at level 12? That DM who thinks that all high level D&D is insane no matter what? That group that spends years just getting to level 5? The group that begins play at level 3? This is all an attempt to play in a particular "tier." The disadvantage with keeping it the same is that the game then changes underneath you. DMs are surprised when PC's can teleport and raise the dead and thus wreck adventures. Players never get those high-level awesome abilities they work toward. Players expect a game where they feel like heroes and the DM has them slaying goblins for months. Or vice vesa. Or whatever. That's not what a lot of people seem to want -- they want to control the change in scope based on what they want. I think the "default mode" D&D might change every 5 levels or so, thus making tier transitions a natural part of play, and helping to keep D&D firmly ensconced in leveled territory. The main feature is the ability to "turn off" tier advancement without having to turn off ALL advancement.</blockquote>

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