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Falling from Great Heights
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<blockquote data-quote="Aaron" data-source="post: 5884740" data-attributes="member: 52548"><p>That's because even a 0 level peasant has a "in game" life experience that suggets him that 4 years old kids are no threat for him.</p><p></p><p>The same goes for a high level PC and country bandits: the experience is the key.</p><p></p><p>For the PCs, to be skilled enough to be a threat means you are a high level NPC, something that common town guards or country bandits are not.</p><p> </p><p>But, again, you have to deal with this example, or your ingame coherence will abruptly crumble.</p><p></p><p>And, again, from where do you derive that high level PCs are <u>unresilient otherwise normal mortal being?</u></p><p> </p><p>Why?</p><p></p><p>What you call "game mechanics" is what the PC live in their in-game lives.</p><p></p><p>I have already shown it.</p><p> </p><p>The same could be said for a 4 years old kid, that could be a polymorphed red wyrm. Nonetheless you wrote that 0 level peasants wouldn't consider him to be a threat.</p><p> </p><p>Are you saying that being hit by a crossbow bolt in your arm couldn't kill you?</p><p></p><p>Uhm...no.</p><p></p><p>In 3.5 you can have <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo-9-FTvM6k#t=02m32s" target="_blank">a guy who can lift 200 lb over his head</a> (Str 15) armed with a dagger, and a sleeping (and even tied) PC in front of him.</p><p></p><p>Well, if this strong guy would execute a coup de grace on the helpless PC, he would roll 2d4+4 damage for the automatic critical hit.</p><p>That means a DC of the Fort save for the PC being 10 + [2.5x2 + 4 (Str modx2)] = 19.</p><p></p><p>Even newbies play 20th level barbarians who could make a succesful Fort save with that DC with a success rate of 95%.</p><p></p><p>Now, are you seriously going to say that such a coup de grace could result in a graze or near miss?</p><p></p><p>The rules point directly toward my view of the game: I did not create it, and in no way I'm saying is the best system ever designed, but it's, nonetheless, the view the rules clearly show.</p><p></p><p>But, by your words, no arrow shot would ever hit them in their heads, or heart, or other vital point, unless the PCs are already being hit several times (i.e., the shot is the killing one).</p><p></p><p>How is that coherent or believable?</p><p></p><p>Well, I can in no way suspend my belief if the PCs are so outrageously lucky that every single victory they attain is due to sheer luck/divine intervention.</p><p></p><p>They are going to hurt, but does this mean the PCs should surrender to the bandits?</p><p></p><p>Come on.</p><p> </p><p>Don't make it personal.</p><p></p><p>My PCs "wade through lava, take arrows to the face, and fall 200 feet and brush themselves off" only if they are forced to by the circumstances.</p><p></p><p>But yes, they would not fear the aforementioned bandits, cause thay have defeated bigger menaces.</p><p></p><p>Not to mention that, as I wrote before, your luck/divine approach intervention has many flaws, IMHO.</p><p> </p><p>1) what if my players don't like to play PCs who are blessed by this "predestination" profile this approach implies?</p><p> </p><p>2) the number of deadly menaces a standard adventurer faces in his career would make him look more like Gladstone Gander or Nedward Flanders;</p><p> </p><p>3) if the Pc doesn't know what he can do (since everything he achieved was due to sheer luck/divine intervention), what can he plan?</p><p> </p><p>How can he know if a mission is too hard to accomplish?</p><p> </p><p>How can assess the risks involved, if every single deadly attack in his life missed him thanks to luck/divine intervention?</p><p> </p><p>If he opts to face hundreds of deadly menaces thinking about how lucky he was before, either he's basing his decision on the "metagame rules" you despise, or he's simply outrageously silly.</p><p></p><p>Absit iniuria verbis.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aaron, post: 5884740, member: 52548"] That's because even a 0 level peasant has a "in game" life experience that suggets him that 4 years old kids are no threat for him. The same goes for a high level PC and country bandits: the experience is the key. For the PCs, to be skilled enough to be a threat means you are a high level NPC, something that common town guards or country bandits are not. But, again, you have to deal with this example, or your ingame coherence will abruptly crumble. And, again, from where do you derive that high level PCs are [U]unresilient otherwise normal mortal being?[/U] Why? What you call "game mechanics" is what the PC live in their in-game lives. I have already shown it. The same could be said for a 4 years old kid, that could be a polymorphed red wyrm. Nonetheless you wrote that 0 level peasants wouldn't consider him to be a threat. Are you saying that being hit by a crossbow bolt in your arm couldn't kill you? Uhm...no. In 3.5 you can have [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo-9-FTvM6k#t=02m32s"]a guy who can lift 200 lb over his head[/URL] (Str 15) armed with a dagger, and a sleeping (and even tied) PC in front of him. Well, if this strong guy would execute a coup de grace on the helpless PC, he would roll 2d4+4 damage for the automatic critical hit. That means a DC of the Fort save for the PC being 10 + [2.5x2 + 4 (Str modx2)] = 19. Even newbies play 20th level barbarians who could make a succesful Fort save with that DC with a success rate of 95%. Now, are you seriously going to say that such a coup de grace could result in a graze or near miss? The rules point directly toward my view of the game: I did not create it, and in no way I'm saying is the best system ever designed, but it's, nonetheless, the view the rules clearly show. But, by your words, no arrow shot would ever hit them in their heads, or heart, or other vital point, unless the PCs are already being hit several times (i.e., the shot is the killing one). How is that coherent or believable? Well, I can in no way suspend my belief if the PCs are so outrageously lucky that every single victory they attain is due to sheer luck/divine intervention. They are going to hurt, but does this mean the PCs should surrender to the bandits? Come on. Don't make it personal. My PCs "wade through lava, take arrows to the face, and fall 200 feet and brush themselves off" only if they are forced to by the circumstances. But yes, they would not fear the aforementioned bandits, cause thay have defeated bigger menaces. Not to mention that, as I wrote before, your luck/divine approach intervention has many flaws, IMHO. 1) what if my players don't like to play PCs who are blessed by this "predestination" profile this approach implies? 2) the number of deadly menaces a standard adventurer faces in his career would make him look more like Gladstone Gander or Nedward Flanders; 3) if the Pc doesn't know what he can do (since everything he achieved was due to sheer luck/divine intervention), what can he plan? How can he know if a mission is too hard to accomplish? How can assess the risks involved, if every single deadly attack in his life missed him thanks to luck/divine intervention? If he opts to face hundreds of deadly menaces thinking about how lucky he was before, either he's basing his decision on the "metagame rules" you despise, or he's simply outrageously silly. Absit iniuria verbis. [/QUOTE]
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