Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="fenriswolf456" data-source="post: 5885518" data-attributes="member: 6687664">And how do they know this? If they fought them before (say at a lower level in the past), then sure, they have in-game experience and can judge based off of that. Otherwise, they are meta-gaming based on the assumption that all town guards are 3rd level (for example). But if you're traipsing through the woods when you're suddenly surrounded by 12 armed bandits you've never seen before, with crossbows raised and ready, should the characters not take pause?   Because that's a reasonable base assumption? All characters start this way. Sure, characters could end up with magic or abilities to change their nature as they level, to become resilient to damage. But it could be argued just as easily that they don't get those magic items or choose those abilities/powers/feats as they level.   Why would they? It's a 4 year old kid to them. Unless they know it's a dragon in disguise. And unless it's a world of 4-year olds ripping people's throats out, they just won't be considered a threat. But in a world where arrows do kill, from 1st to 30th level, how can PCs not end up treating a dozen aimed arrows at them to not be any kind of threat? I'm not saying they should cower in fear, or run away, and the PCs will most likely risk injury and death to fight them, but this doesn't mean that such a threat isn't there or not in the character's minds.  No, but I wouldn't say anyone instantly dies from such a hit (I could be wrong on this count, as I have never come face-to-face with heavy body trauma before). Plus if we're talking skilled PCs here, they should be making those dramatic hits, rather than having all their opponents bleed-out (which by RAW would have to be on-going damage anyway). As for PCs ... well, that's what Death Saves are about.  Coup de grace rules have always been one of the unbelievable aspects of the game to me. And it's akin to the original topic of this thread.  And no, of course it wouldn't be a graze. By all rights, the characters should be auto-killed, or at least on their way to dying. This is one of the extreme cases where the general rules don't work to create a believable framework, unless you somehow find 20 throat cuts to be at all believable. In the midst of combat, I can at least sort of buy the CdG rule, since the creature delivering the blow is in a threatening situation, even if not immediately threatened by an enemy. The blow is certainly heavy, but not necessarily deadly enough as the deliverer has to concern itself with everything going on around it.  Because for me it's a lot more believable than a character taking 5 arrows to the heart and still running around and fighting as fresh as a daisy. And it's a trope in nearly every action movie out there. The heroes are constantly missed/grazed, even by the "deadly precise stormtroopers". It may pushing the bounds of believability at times, but it doesn't prevent us from accepting it.  And by skill, and teamwork, and intelligent tactics, and powerful spells and abilities. Luck and fate play only a part in the whole. I've never said otherwise (or at least meant to imply otherwise).   Tough? No-one gets to choose their fate, and the gods bless whom they please, whether they want it or not. And luck is tied into the entire base mechanics in the game, in every die roll we make. If your players want your HPs to be simply how much meat you have on you, go ahead, it's certainly possible to play with that assumption. But don't take away the fact that the base assumption is and has always been that HPs do encompass all these other intangible qualities. Some of us have always played with HPs being this way.  It is quite amazing that this group of (likely) disparate people just happened to get together at just the right time to face these menaces, in the nick of time, and triumphed over every obstacle they ever faced.  Again, luck and fate are only parts of the whole. Of course a character knows what they can do. And I never said that these attacks miss, they obviously didn't, as that's a facter of THAC0/Defenses. But how do you say that the heroes take a dozen deadly blows? Deadly implies, well, death is soon to follow. Otherwise, well, I guess the blow wasn't that deadly after all. Perhaps they ducked that deadly blow to the head and took it in the shoulder by instint and skill, or were lucky, or fate has other plans. And I'm not against the tough hero at all. I enjoy the combat system that allows me to emulate such things. I don't want PCs to die in one blow, as that is not my idea of the fun I want when I play D&D. But seeing as we don't have an injury system or any sort of penalty for being heavily beat up, it's hard (for me at least) to consider that the characters are taking hits like Boromir did at his death and not be adversely affected in a meaningful way, as he certainly was. But that doesn't mean I want things to be beyond the bounds of my believability. And I realize this is a differing concept amongst gamers.  No, just like any living, breathing person, a PC should base their decisions on what they believe they are capable of, and how they perceive what's in front of them. Boiling water hurts, I'm not going to stick my hand in that pot. Arrows to the face can kill, maybe I should appraise the situation carefully.  Because yes, I agree, basing things purely on luck is very silly. Case in point, my group faced a white dragon recently, and it was a total cakewalk, mainly because the DM rolled one entire hit on us in the combat. But we're not suddenly going to think that the next dragon we come across will be as easy. Simularly, we're not going to assume the next group of guards with bows aimed at us will be a stroll through the park, even though as players and gamers, we know we have the health and healing surges to survive 4 or 5 encounters.</blockquote>

Verification