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Message: <blockquote data-quote="El Mahdi" data-source="post: 5885637" data-attributes="member: 59506">I agree completely about the "spark". It's paramount in the fictional archetypes I like also. As is gaining more skills and becoming more formidable as one gains experience. However, I've never read any fictional archetype (excepting super hero's), where jumping off a 200' cliff is a tactical option rather than certain death. And one does not have to be a Fantasy Super Hero to be a Hero. Even D&D Fiction doesn't break those rational bounds. I don't see why the game needs to either (unless one specifically wants that). I think the core rules should make the most sense when applying logic based on real world experience, rather than needing to understand the in's and out's of an unrealistically contrived world. I want my players to be able to play that way. I want a newbie to be able to come into the game, and not knowing the system, be able to make basic practical tactical and strategic decisions. I don't want them to know, or have to know, that their 10th level Fighter can jump off a 200' cliff and survive with bumps and bruises. I think internal concepts like this, along with not knowing the rules themselves, are also a barrier to new players...one that's easy to fix. If one wants the super heroic world, then apply the rules modifications to the base system and super fantasy hero away. Newbie: *to DM* (thinking this is a realistic tactical option) This Orc is killing me in this fight. I'm going to have to do something big to survive this. Can I try pushing the Orc off of this 200' cliff?DM: Uhmm...Sure. Just make an attack roll at a -4. However, if you're succcessful, the Orc gets a Reflex saving throw to see if it grabs the edge of the cliff.Newbie: Cool. Here goes...*rolls dice*...Woo Hoo! I Hit!<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />DM:  Okay.  The Orc rolls it's Reflex Save...*rolls dice*...Nope.  No Luck.  The Orc falls.Newbie:  Yes!!!!!!  Scratch out one Orc!!!<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />DM:  As you look over the edge to where the Orc landed, you see it get up and limp off.Newbie: Huh...<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" />  Damn!  No wonder it was going to kill me.  That things a freaking Super Hero!DM:  No.  I just made it using PC rules.  It was about 10th level.  That's only a couple of levels higher than your character.  Youre character could probably survive it also.Newbie:  Huh...<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" />  10th level or not, unless it's a Super Hero how the hell did it survive a 200' fall...?!?  That doesn't make any sense!  What are you going to tell me next, I can survive falling onto molten lava...?!?  How am I supposed to make logical decisions if there's no logic to the game...<img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm    :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" /> <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/glasses.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt="B-)" title="Glasses    B-)" data-shortname="B-)" /></blockquote>

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