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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 5046401" data-attributes="member: 5834">reI tried 4E. Ran some characters to level 11. About that level we all grew weary of the game except for one guy. 4E wasn't for us. The magic system was too limiting. The level of lethality was lacking. Solos in general died far too easily. The hardest fights seemed to be elites and common monsters in a mix. The power system was repetitious and encouraged repetition. Players were using their encounter powers just because they could rather than because they were needed. Just all around killed the immersion.I did like some things about 4e. I liked that they eliminated the magic item Christmas tree. We've been working to do that in our Pathfinder campaign by giving both sides less magic. Seems to be working. I like the idea of rituals, though I don't like the implementation. I like that magic was used as a counter in previous editions rather than solely for combat. It made you feel good as a cleric to have a freedom of movement or death ward ready when the pack of spectres show up. 4E was too limited a game for my tastes and changing the flavor text doesn't change how the mechanics work. I didn't like the mechanics.I'm always amazed by the differerent ways people see games. I felt like 4E simplified and compartmentalized tactics, especially for casters and made combat less lethal and interesting. Undead weren't very fearsome any longer. They were just another monster to beat on. And I still fail to see how pushing something a few squares repeatedly is an advancement in tactics. I guess many people just didn't get much mileage out of 3E or previous iterations of D&D. I like options. I like combat that simulates fighting styles versus "powers". I like rules that at least attempt to give you a reasonable means by which to accomplish a particular action like grappling or disarming a weapon. I like a magic system that is fluid and lasts past 1 or 2 rounds with inherent counters.The best thing I can say about 4E is the prep time was vastly reduced even if the in game combat wasn't any faster. And I liked some of the ideas for monster building like giving a creature a ton of hit points and making it capable of fighting an entire party. I took some of those ideas with me to Pathfinder.And as far as your dilemma: find the game system closest to what you like and modify it as you like whether it's your own house rule or something you steal from another edition of D&D or another game system. Don't let a game system kill your imagination.</blockquote>

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