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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jgbrowning" data-source="post: 5053761" data-attributes="member: 5724">This post is a prime example of what I've been saying all along.Imagine if the player didn't have Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Ray of Frost (maybe?), Thunderwave, Icy Terrain, Feather Fall, or Bigby's Icy Grasp and only had Web to use as a tool to rescue their drowning friend.People here have been arguing that that guy, the one with only web, is in a game system that has just as much (if not more) creativity in problem solving ability to get their friend out of the water.People here would argue that the system would be even more creative if you didn't have access to web, because then you'd have to think of something else. And that's more creative!*sigh*Options allow for more creativity than limitations. The interesting discussion is when do options become limitations and vice versa.And, no, I'm not selling 4e short because I'm only talking about the creativity lost concerning the spells that became rituals. I'm not doing a system-wide creativity critique. Never have been. If people would be more willing to discus the obvious negatives in the ritual system (and the obvious positives as well) as opposed to taking any critique of a 4e sub-system as being a critique upon the entire system requiring the marshaling of defenses resulting in ridiculous arguments such as "limitations improve creativity" that are utterly antithetical to one of the the core design principles of 4e "options, not restrictions" we wouldn't be having this conversation.Really, my simple comment pointing out the lost creativity potential in the new ritual system resulted in people trying to argue that one of the core design principles in 4e was wrong in order to defend against my saying there was some lost creative potential in their favored game.That's what I'll have to coin as "4irony."I'm a designer. I critique everything because I want to understand it. Some systems are better than others. Yes, that includes 4e. It's just another system, that's better in some way and worse in others. Not being able to talk about it rationally doesn't make the game one likes better.joe b.</blockquote>

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