Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="jgbrowning" data-source="post: 5053974" data-attributes="member: 5724">So the wizard is in the same scenario you described as being the one who can outshine the rogue using rituals?I'm a bit confused. You say it was bad that a 3e wizard could outshine a rogue by using spells, I then said that anyone in 4e could do the same, and now you are saying that not anyone in 4e will do it because there are some buy in costs so it's probably going to be the wizard doing it anyway. You then add that a skill challenge (instead of just a spell) can now be used to outshine the rogue as something that's supposed to support the argument that outshining the rogue is, in general, a problem with 3e wizards. I have to admit, I'm a bit confused. It sounds like you disagree with just one party member being about to poach in on the "realm" of another party member, but you're all for all party members being able to poach into the "realm" of another party member.And that still kinda sidesteps that the 4e wizard will probably still be able to outshine the rogue in the ways you didn't like in 3e (although it may take 10 minutes now).So the main increase in utility and creativity of rituals in 4e (the ability of anyone to get them) will probably never actualize because most parties will simply rely upon those classes that get the ritual caster feat for free? That looks like another strike against ritual creativity.It came down to how many spells the wizard had access to. Since there were so many spells, the chance of a wizard having the right spells to be prepared for most situations in a "disruptive" mannor came down to the frugality or liberalness of the GM in providing access to those spells. This is exactly the same as providing access to magic items. Those with more magic items are more prepared (in general) than those with fewer. If a GM was not treating spell access equal to magic item acquisition - well, there's your problem... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Possibly, but would he need to do as well considering that the others in the group would simply outshine him anyway?In my experience, my players are always being as creative as each other, regardless if they're playing fighter, cleric, rogue or thief. They're looking at the entire groups capabilities when thinking creatively, as opposed to only their PC's abilities.joe b.</blockquote>

Verification