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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mort" data-source="post: 5054074" data-attributes="member: 762">Yes it will be primarily the wizard doing the rituals and yes this might have the potential to do the same stuff as the rogue but no longer clearly better than the rogue. Take Knock for example: the 3e version is cast within 6 seconds, automatically opens most doors, and can open doors the rogue has 0% chance of opening.  The 4e version of Knock takes 10 minutes and requires an arcana roll, meaning the mage is only going to cast it if the rogue has failed (or if the rogue for some reason cannot pick the lock). The wizard is doing what the rogue can do, but not at well and at some cost - not outshining the rogue. I was just saying that alternatives to the wizard stepping on toes are good, though it came out a bit muddled. Still, the whole group (as opposed to just one character) participating in such a way to solve a problem, even if it's usually the pervue of only one of the classes, is usually a good outcome. - D&D is a group game after all. But the wizard won't be able to outshine the rogue. He'll be able to fill in for the rogue at some expense, cost in time and generally not as well so only when necessary. Perhaps so, but seeing as in prior edditions  non-caster classes could, without multiclassing, (for the most part) never get access to spells it's still a step up.Yes a DM could certainly restrict access to spells,  but that's recognizing that there might be a problem and dealing with it so I don't see how that conflicts with what I'm saying. The over abundance of magic items is a widely known issue and most DMs know to deal with it. Easy access to spells and the problems it may cause is a lesser known issue and may take unknowing DMs quite off guard. Well yes, thinking creatively for the group is great and is certainly my experience as well, but that's separate from the discussion of a particular characters' (not necessarily player's) contribution in that regard.</blockquote>

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