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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Starfox" data-source="post: 5015530" data-attributes="member: 2303">I had this kind of relationship with the TORG game by West End (anyone remember that?). There was kind of a mini-game in TORG involving cards; you got cards by doing "approved actions" and then you could play cards to gain bonuses or give cards to other players. Our game group became VERY good at this metagame, so good that we could do really amazing things with it - and in the end it came to overshadow the "normal" game. That, and that with supplements and house rules, the whole game became unweildy, especially at higher levels made me lose patience with it. And the "laser sight" effect - there were so many small side bonuses you could get to almost everything, that the base game values started to matter less and less.After six years of TORG, we moved on. We still think/talk of it fondly, but no-one really seems to want to go back to it.This is the most clear-cut example, but I've had similar experiences with ADD1, Rune Quest, ADD2, Star Wars (also by West End), Pendragon, DnD3, and now DnD4. In the end, all games get worn out, and few can stand really long campaigns without starting to burst at the seams.</blockquote>