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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Familiars, share spell, and Polymorph.
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<blockquote data-quote="Saeviomagy" data-source="post: 1795820" data-attributes="member: 5890"><p>Polymorph says it's like alter self, except you change the creature into another form of creature. It then goes on to specify what living creatures are valid polymorph forms, which includes:</p><p></p><p>the same type as the subject, aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin</p><p></p><p>So, check. The familiar is turning into an animal - permissible.</p><p></p><p>The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level</p><p></p><p>Check - a dire lion is 8 hd, and the caster and the familiar have 8hd.</p><p></p><p>You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you cause a subject to assume an incorporeal or gaseous form</p><p></p><p>Check.</p><p></p><p>So - dire lion is not a problem. You COULD try reasoning that "within one category" from alter self should apply, because it's never explicitly removed, however</p><p>1) That would mean that polymorph has a clause who's sole purpose is to stop a fine creature from polymorphing into a less-than-fine creature - which seems to be a bit pointless.</p><p></p><p>2)  That would mean that the 5hd limit from alter self ALSO applies - because in the same way that the size category is never removed, merely restated in different terms, neither is the hit-dice limit of alter self.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Saeviomagy, post: 1795820, member: 5890"] Polymorph says it's like alter self, except you change the creature into another form of creature. It then goes on to specify what living creatures are valid polymorph forms, which includes: the same type as the subject, aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin So, check. The familiar is turning into an animal - permissible. The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level Check - a dire lion is 8 hd, and the caster and the familiar have 8hd. You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you cause a subject to assume an incorporeal or gaseous form Check. So - dire lion is not a problem. You COULD try reasoning that "within one category" from alter self should apply, because it's never explicitly removed, however 1) That would mean that polymorph has a clause who's sole purpose is to stop a fine creature from polymorphing into a less-than-fine creature - which seems to be a bit pointless. 2) That would mean that the 5hd limit from alter self ALSO applies - because in the same way that the size category is never removed, merely restated in different terms, neither is the hit-dice limit of alter self. [/QUOTE]
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Familiars, share spell, and Polymorph.
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