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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8576874" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Many critics' fears are overblown, but not 100% unwarranted. Some fans expect too much. Obviously, each group will have its own experience of this issue, but I see a lot more people, several times more, complaining about the possibility of abuse by players than I do complaints about any actual abuse.[SPOILER='Digression about "white room" arguments and how selectively they're used']Many love the "white room" retort. I strongly dislike it, in part because it's almost always used to dismiss discussion without further thought, but also in part because it's only used against things the speaker opposes. This is relevant because I find concerns about familiars are "white room"-type claims--on both sides. Players with inflated expectations, and DMs who anticipate bad-faith players. Both are "white room"; if you dismiss others' arguments for being "white room," I recommend thinking about whether your concerns are such. If you've actually had DMs rule unfairly, actively denying any value to your choice to have a familiar, that's a serious issue. If one of your players has thrown a legit tantrum because their reckless choices with their familiar had consequences, that's a serious issue. But if your concerns arise from what you think might happen, consider whether you would accept that kind of criticism against something you're personally in favor of.[/SPOILER]With that digression out of the way: Yes, player abuse is possible, as is a DM being excessively punitive toward familiars. Effective use requires a real conversation, where no one assumes anyone else will act in bad faith. This is why I so heavily stress that DMs should actively support genuine, non-coercive, non-abusive player enthusiasm.If it's genuine, the player is earnest and wants a good experience for all. I find it pretty easy to tell whether a player's enthusiasm is genuine or merely a ploy to get power. If it's non-coercive, the player doesn't want to control what others do; at most, they might hope others play along for everyone's mutual benefit. Coercion takes many forms, from "get in a relationship with my PC" to "everyone should play 100% optimized" to "but that's what my character would do" excuses, but again, it is usually not too hard to spot. If the enthusiasm is non-abusive, in general, it will be pretty easy to find out--just offer a lower-power alternative, especially if it's got a richer story or higher aesthetic value in the bargain. (I <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/playable-races-few-or-plenty-common-or-variable-native-or-outsiders.685952/page-3#post-8542402" target="_blank">offered to do that</a> for a rhetorical question in a thread last month. The person who asked never responded.) Abusive enthusiasm doesn't demand much of others, and instead seeks to "win" or "dominate," controlling the state of the game rather than the actions of other participants.I am of the opinion that it is almost always possible to do this in a way that works for everyone involved, and always worth seeking such a solution even if ultimately one can't be found. And if you're having a mature, respectful conversation with your player or DM about what familiars do, what to expect, etc., then you shouldn't ever have a dust-up because a player got upset that their expectations weren't met, or a DM being needlessly punitive.I mean...good on you for being up front about that...but that sounds needlessly punitive to me. "Oh, you interested in that thing? Keep in mind, my policy will always be to destroy it immediately. Yes, every single time." That just comes across as opposed to players having fun with something.</blockquote>

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