Fantasy Anthology Open Call . . .

[Mouseferatu]

And now you're putting words in my mouth. I never claimed anyone who disagreed with me was automatically wrong.

But do I feel strongly about this? Absolutely. I believe that writers are undervalued, both in society in general and in the fiction and RPG industries in particular. When we get paid at all, it's very little. And yes, there is a widely held belief that "anyone can be a writer," and that therefore writing isn't worth paying for.

Whether or not you personally hold that belief--and I'm not claiming that you do--you contribute to it by expecting people to contribute free word count to a book that you're going to sell.

So no, I don't believe that people who contribute are "evil" or "wrong." Nor do I believe that you are, despite the fact that you seem determined to take my words in the most offensive way possible.

But I have exactly as much right to encourage others not to participate as you have to encourage them to do so. If you wish to view it as negativity, I can't stop you, but you'd be mistaken in assuming that my motives are that base. I've been a struggling, up-and-coming writer myself, and I believe strongly in authors' rights. The fact that I believe authors should be paid if they're contributing to a book to be sold is part of those beliefs.

If you can't afford a lot, offer a little. Offer 1 cent/word. Offer half a cent/word, I don't care. It's the principle of the thing that I'm arguing for.

 

[G7]

If you can't afford a lot, offer a little. Offer 1 cent/word. Offer half a cent/word, I don't care. It's the principle of the thing that I'm arguing for.

The principal? If we offered a half-cent per word, that would, in most cases, be of LESS value than getting a free copy of the book. Is that the principal you mean? There IS value in getting a free copy of the book, regardless of how you feel.

Claiming that we're contributing to the belief "that anyone can be a writer, and that therefore writing isn't worth paying for" just makes me sick, and simply put, is absolutely wrong in every aspect. We ARE writers doing this, so we certainly understand the value of them.

But please, continue to feel the way you do. It obviously matters very little to you what I say.

 

[Mouseferatu]

It obviously matters very little to you what I say.

You know, you're right. As a publisher, it matters to me what you do, not what you say.

But I'm done with this argument, either way. I've said my piece, you've disagreed; you've said yours, I've disagreed. There's nothing left but to keep chasing our tails, and we've both got better things to do.

Believe it or not, I do wish you luck with the anthology, even if I don't agree with the way you're putting it together.

 

[G7]

I have exactly as much right to encourage others not to participate as you have to encourage them to do so.

So, by that logic, I have as much right to discourage and dissuade people from buying the next Ari Marmell penned novel? Sure, I have the right. Is it ethical? Absolutely not. I would never do such a thing. Yet, that is what I feel like you've done.

Keep in mind, Ari, that when you stick your neck in other people's affairs in a negative manner, it can serve to make yourself look bad as well. Your unrequired (and I would certainly argue, unwarranted) criticisms have left a bad taste in my mouth, especially when my original intent was to simply make an open call for authors who wished to contribute to a fantasy anthology. IT IS A VOLUNTARY OPEN CALL! Nobody is putting a gun to anyone’s head, here. The guidelines are plainly listed, and the situation is pretty harmless. For you to tell people "not to submit" is close to an unwarranted personal attack.

Enjoy your day . . .

 

[ha-gieden]

Wow. This is getting nasty.

I think that anyone reading this thread has probably gotten a pretty good idea of the pros and cons of the anthology by now. There is no monetary compensation, and some feel that this devalues authors. On the other hand, the anthology promises to be a nice book, and some people do wish to be included - even if it's purely for the enjoyment of doing so.

There may be other issues, but these seem to be the main two. They've been said multiple times and in multiple ways. Things have gotten ugly.

I, for one, am bowing out of this discussion. I respect you, Bards and Sages and Mouseferatu. It's good to see publishers who care so much about the plight of authors. I respect you, G7. I've talked to you quite a bit, and know that you care deeply about your craft. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone on this thread, and I hope that we all get through this with no hard feelings.

I think it's safe to leave the argument behind and just let anyone who clicks on the thread read the *ahem* discussion that has already taken place. They will see both sides and can decide for themselves.

 

[Bardsandsages]

G7: I don't believe I ever insulted you or questioned your professionalism. In fact, I don't believe I ever uttered the words "DON'T SUBMIT TO THIS!!!!". I made a suggestion, to you and your partners, based off of my own experience assembling anthologies. And then I clarified some technical issues involving the industry in general that others may not be aware of. Please don't start engaging in the martyr syndrome, where every question or recommendation becomes a personal attack. That which is worthwhile should withstand criticism and open query. Attempts to deflect the questions by feigning some harm, or to imply that the queries are personal attacks, are insulting.

You have two choices as a publisher: you can respond to queries and criticism with positive, proactive results, or you can cry foul. That you changed your listing to an unpaid call is a positive, proactive result. Accusing people of personally attacking you is crying foul.

I use lulu.com as my printer. Do you know the crap I have to listen to because of it? I had a situation where a website refused advertising (yes, they REFUSED to take my money!!!) because they didn't want to be flooded by a bunch of self-published authors selling crap. Now I could have ranted and taken their position as an insult. Instead, I replied that I appreciated their concerns, agreed with them that a great deal of self-published stuff is in fact crap, and explained that I simply use POD instead of offset printing to reduce my up-front costs on production. I invited them to visit my website, and if they still hand concerns to ask. Because I know that if someone goes to my website, they are going to find that I AM professional. They are going to find dozens of positive reviews for our fiction books from third-party sources. Eventually I worked out a very productive promotion with them giving away a couple of comp copies in a drawing that generated a lot of hits for my site.

My point is that not only should you expect questions and criticisms when you launch a new venture, but you should welcome them. Such queries will help you determine how you are being viewed in the public eye, and therefore allow you to cultivate the positive and change the negative. Getting defensive and accusatory only makes people think you are up to something. And I never assumed, or stated, that you were. As a writer, you know that you need a thick skin in this business. You can't look at questions or criticisms as personal attacks just because you don't agree.

But I don't mean to lecture. As someone very involved in POD, my goal is always to help people get the best possible result out of their work. And sometimes I may come across as a tad bit bitchy (though if you REALLY want to see me rip into someone, you should come over to the Lulu forums...loads of fun to be had there!)

 

[G7]

I think it's safe to leave the argument behind . . .

Agreed, ha-gieden, there is no point in continuing this.

Please read my original response (seriously). It was extremely amiable and responsive to everyone's criticisms. However, apparently it wasn't enough for a couple people, who continued to force ahead whatever point they were trying to make. Naturally, I felt as if I had to defend myself, which I guess was the wrong choice. Anyway, this is it for me. I’m done.

I apologize for any ugliness I've handed out during this.

 

[Priest_Sidran]

G7 It may be helpful if you provided a list of people who are working on the project whom the majority of us might know, or at least can google. As for Online (electronic print) anthologies, I have recently run into an amount of people who are less than thrilled with such a medium. Offering it in this way, as well as print on demand would make it much more attractive to the consumer, and offering a Print copy of the book to those authors who do get in to your anthology would be a plus. Sharing a little of the end product profit might also be helpful.

Advertising your anthology on major sites, as well as in print magazines might be helpful as well. Its a portrayal of authenticity that stops many from sending their work. I want my stories to get read, but I want them to be read by people who mean something in the long run. Whether or not your anthology means something is a matter for the future, if you want to have a successful business in publishing, find ways to attract people to your project. No one wants to work for free, especially authors. Writing is a labor of love, not a hobby of love, it takes work, hard work, and to not get paid for that work is almost unbearable for some authors (there is always the artist type of author out there who does the work simply for the sake of the work, and for nothing else and no one else, but in this world, these days that is a rarity). I Applaud your desire to get an anthology together but I think that you should reevaluate the way you handle recruiting your authors. Look at some of the major publishers in the Genre and see how they handle submissions, incentives, etc.

PS