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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HeapThaumaturgist" data-source="post: 3652782" data-attributes="member: 12332">Still being rather hampered by not having the Saga book:Don't the defense scores in Saga raise somewhat beyond the applicable D&D cognates would normally be, rather rapidly? (And Damage Threshold is set to Fortitude Defense + applicable bonuses.)The way I've been looking at it, Saga has taken some rolls and flipped them on what is essentially a Take 10 mechanic.  Instead of a Will Saving Throw of +5 you have a Will Defense of 15.  Instead of a DC 15 Will Save spell, you throw a +5 spell and roll a 1d20.  That seems to be the core of the Defense mechanic and related changes (and generally retains equilibrium on the law of averages, just puts activity in the hands of the currently-active-player and reduces the total number of rolls).Then we have the Massive Damage Save mechanic.  This is in D&D and d20 Modern.  In D&D it is set to 50 and is a Save Vs. Death.  In d20Modern it is set to Con and is Save vs. Dying.  Since we have removed saves, we no longer get a Save vs. ----- after the number is hit.  If the Massive Damage Threshold (or just Damage Threshold) is breached you IMMEDIATELY get some effect.  In Saga's case, that is move a step down the condition track.  I think we need to look some at "what does this do" in relation to level bonuses and the like.  Doesn't the level bonuses to Attack, Damage, and Defense remove/mitigate the need for equipment based bonuses ... bonuses in D&D that usually come as magic enhancement bonuses to attack, damage, and saving throws.  OR:  Given all other things constant, if we merely switch the mechanic on its ear in D&D and remove any remaining saves ... aren't we essentially "there", plus some tweaking?If, say, magical bonuses to these scores remain commensurate with those found in D&D AND there are level-based additions to damage, hit, and defense, characters are going to increase in power across the board while (if we want to keep d20 books and the like useful) monsters will not.  Characters will hit more, hit for more damage, and be harder to affect.  If the major mechanic is a Take 10 Flip, as it were, it would be essentially very easy to "convert" any monster in any book ... add ten to all of the saves (with any armor or natural armor bonuses adding in to Ref) and subtract ten from any special attacks.On that same note I think the equipment-based-bonuses in D&D are where the differences in base damage dice get evened out.  In D&D you start getting bonuses on damage from +1 to +1d6 around 3rd level, and increase from there.  Most characters get some sort of damage-addition bonus to their weapons pretty quickly.--fje</blockquote>

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