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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Goumindong" data-source="post: 4442647" data-attributes="member: 70874">O.K. Here is where you are failing and failing utterly. First off, lets get semantics out of the way.1. A 20th level NPC paladin cannot be as important as a players 20th level Paladin doing the same thing. He cannot be because he is not the focus of the game.2. There is no such thing as a 20th level paladin. Class and level only serve as mechanical constructs by which NPCs and Monsters interact in combat with PCs. It is nothing else. If you want a guy who is a powerful Paladin, then you make him a powerful paladin. And all the time he is doing his thing with only NPC/NPC interaction, he is a powerful paladin doing exactly what you want him to do The other day, i ran an adventure, and the orcs kicked a guys face in. I didn't need to roll to have the orcs kick a guys face in, because that is retarded, they're NPCs, they all do what I want when i want why i want because I said so. Now, when they interact with players they may or may not be minions, may or may not be elite, or solo or whatever. All of that is just a construct to inform the interaction with the players.Your players never know the paladins attack bonus, backstory unless you tell them, AC, his powers. They don't need to. All they need to know is that he is strong, and he kicks ass for the Lord MoradinSo literally, the problem is that the class that you play is not the most powerful entity on the entire world. Well then, i see we have gotten to the heart of the matter.Ahh yes. In your experience the 3E wizard was the guy who won the fight, and the rest of them were just there to clean up after you won the fight. I  would think we're getting closer to the heart of the issue, but we totally pegged it ages ago.Of course he would, what right minded DM is going to let a player rule a Kingdom when there are worlds to be saving?If you have other problems its because you are failing to realize that outside of the players there is no such thing as a wizard. If you want to give a wizard a bunch of wild ass crazy abilities you are free to do so. Because what makes an NPC vivid to the players is not its stat block  And those same monsters do the same thing to a fighter. Except faster, with a lower likelihood of being stopped by a save or die, detected before they are in range, or even damaged at all by the fighter.    Well that's great, because i have played wizards and sorcerers and bards nearly exclusively throughout the entire 3e lifespan and i never once felt that i "needed" the other party members. Not certainly in the slightest did i need them to be anything but wizards, sorcerers, druids, or clerics.   I like the 4e Wizard even more than previous incarnations. Because now, i can be very powerful and "controllery", but i don't make the fighter, rogue, or ranger obsolete. Because i can, by default, use powerful arcane techniques and alter the very world around me. But at the same time, if i want to be a wizard that is so awesome he kicks people in the face instead of bothering with arcane words of power, i can be a fighter, and take "ritual caster"  I ran a level 20 playtest adventure of my own design recently and most of the time, the result was "Oh man, what the wizard did really defined that fight". Because that is what wizards do now, they define fights, they don't win them.      No, you can have all the subjective opinion that you want, just as we can have all the subjective opinion to call your subjective opinion stupid.        O.K. here is the real problem. You don't understand roleplaying games. Roleplaying games are not to be read, they are to be played. That stats of an ogre minion do not define i literal creature that walks around in the world that has 1 hit point, it defines how that creature interacts with the player.    A NPC farmer could stab it as many times as it wanted, and if the DM doesn't want it to die, it doesn't die. Minions are just a framework to make it easier to deal with situations where you want a creature that is going to bite it as soon as the players thwack it.     Trust me, your players, or you will feel mighty powerful when you cleave through a horde of minions. And they will feel threatened at the same time (the last time i had a player who didn't feel threatened by minions he ate 70 damage in a single round and nearly died. Later, that same player, in a different game, jumped out of a window rather than be surrounded by minions)          Aesthetic is something you and your DM create. Aesthetic is not inherent in the system. That is another reason why you are getting told off. Because you are whining about your own inadequacies to find the Aesthetic in a system you like.               A crit from a brutal rogue using a +1 shortsword is likely to do 33.5 average damage with an at will[mundane is 4.5 less].  With an encounter power, you're looking at upwards of 42.5 damage with a Daily, 45.5.      A level 3 Soldier has about 45 hit points... You're going to be downing that target with a crit from your brutal rogue. Your ranger might not on just the crit, but he has more attacks coming to do more damage.       A fighter can do upwards of 44.5 damage on a crit with a daily and +1 weapon(rogues have a pretty hefty DPR advantage on at-will powers)     So you're willing to spend a lot of time making sure wizards are not overpowered by extending encounter length(which actually makes the more powerful, not less, but i digress), flat out banning things which would otherwise be legal(which must include about half of the wizard repertoire). But you are not willing to spend less time to do the same for 4th?I wasn't aware that players could only use acrobatic stunts once per encounter or that rule 42 doesn't have rules for adjudicating "doing cool things with the environment" all the damn time.Oh wait, that is because players can use acrobatic stunts as many times as they want and the DMG has rules for adjudicating doing cool things with the environment all the damn time.</blockquote>

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