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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Paraxis" data-source="post: 6530464" data-attributes="member: 13009">Sure it counts, just like unearthed arcana counts, as does the build your own class section in the 2e DMG, it all counts it is all about the numbers.  Just like knowing your DM and the campaign, if you know the campaign will last a long time or already starts at high level always play a spellcaster, if you know it is a flash in the pan kind of thing you played a barbarian, does the DM enforce level caps, stuff like that you game the system as well as the dungeon master.The evidence is all around you and 40 years of history, min/maxing and optimization have been around since the start it is human nature, 3rd edition didn't invent the idea, the internet allowed the idea to flourish with optimization threads and getting advice from tons of other players/dm's.You can roleplay in a pure storytelling aspect without rules, it is pretty fun collaborative storytelling, but once you add game mechanics to the mix it is also a game and there are ways to get ahead in a game.  You can use odds to help you play poker, logic problem solving in clue, deck building in magic the gathering, once you put out options for character building and altering the success mechanic in a roleplaying game you can and people have forever to optimize in a roleplaying game.Now is it all about the numbers no not really that was just a rebuttal to your statement that "It's not about the numbers anymore."That implies this edition is different than the editions that came before it and honestly it is not.  Play a ranger because you want to talk to animals and track people, I will play a ranger because I want good ranged DPR and access to interesting spells, in the end we are both playing rangers and having fun.</blockquote>

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