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<blockquote data-quote="Mannahnin" data-source="post: 9557002" data-attributes="member: 7026594"><p>Magic items are a thing gained as you advance, as a default expectation of D&D. I don't think the fact that you find them as loot is as big a difference as you're implying. Traditionally they've been a huge part of the character power of non-casters, in particular. I take issue with your use of the term "punish" for not automatically mitigating a limitation of the chosen character which the player is able to proactively address in play.</p><p></p><p>A lot of the Name Level capstone features in AD&D require additional effort and initiative on the part of the player to get and utilize, whether that's making magic items (the details of which are also in that off-limits DMG) or building strongholds (likewise). The Cleric and Druid class write-ups in the PH also don't mention the ability to make magic items, BTW.</p><p></p><p>I think you're carrying over some design assumptions from later editions which didn't necessarily apply to the earlier ones. Sometimes I do find things in the older editions which I consider genuinely BAD design. Sometimes those still make some sense in context and I can see the designers' rationale. And I don't think they were acting maliciously in limiting access to certain powerful tools and abilities, even if I don't 100% agree with their solutions.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Lots of details about how the game worked were in that book. Almost all the rules for combat, for example. And expanded details on how many of the spells worked. And how to make magic items. It was a different design philosophy, where mystery was valued, and learning how the game and world worked was understood to be part of the process of discovery and excitement and becoming skilled as a player. </p><p></p><p>One of the debates about the nature of RPGs in the 1970s was whether players should know the rules AT ALL, or whether that inherently damaged immersion and ruined the illusion of experiencing a secondary world (see <em>The Elusive Shift</em>, if you haven't read it already).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Deduction is not a psychic power. Exploring and trying things in a sandbox world is not a psychic power. </p><p></p><p><em>"Hey, the PH tells me that I'm the only class expected to be regularly using poisons (one of the most powerful weapons in the game), and gives me multiple paragraphs of explanation about the dangers and risks of doing so. Poison isn't on the equipment charts as something I can buy. I guess I should be asking the DM and exploring the game world to figure out how I get my hands on some and whether I can make my own"</em> is a pretty reasonable line of thinking to assume people playing 1E Assassins will naturally have.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mannahnin, post: 9557002, member: 7026594"] Magic items are a thing gained as you advance, as a default expectation of D&D. I don't think the fact that you find them as loot is as big a difference as you're implying. Traditionally they've been a huge part of the character power of non-casters, in particular. I take issue with your use of the term "punish" for not automatically mitigating a limitation of the chosen character which the player is able to proactively address in play. A lot of the Name Level capstone features in AD&D require additional effort and initiative on the part of the player to get and utilize, whether that's making magic items (the details of which are also in that off-limits DMG) or building strongholds (likewise). The Cleric and Druid class write-ups in the PH also don't mention the ability to make magic items, BTW. I think you're carrying over some design assumptions from later editions which didn't necessarily apply to the earlier ones. Sometimes I do find things in the older editions which I consider genuinely BAD design. Sometimes those still make some sense in context and I can see the designers' rationale. And I don't think they were acting maliciously in limiting access to certain powerful tools and abilities, even if I don't 100% agree with their solutions. Lots of details about how the game worked were in that book. Almost all the rules for combat, for example. And expanded details on how many of the spells worked. And how to make magic items. It was a different design philosophy, where mystery was valued, and learning how the game and world worked was understood to be part of the process of discovery and excitement and becoming skilled as a player. One of the debates about the nature of RPGs in the 1970s was whether players should know the rules AT ALL, or whether that inherently damaged immersion and ruined the illusion of experiencing a secondary world (see [I]The Elusive Shift[/I], if you haven't read it already). Deduction is not a psychic power. Exploring and trying things in a sandbox world is not a psychic power. [I]"Hey, the PH tells me that I'm the only class expected to be regularly using poisons (one of the most powerful weapons in the game), and gives me multiple paragraphs of explanation about the dangers and risks of doing so. Poison isn't on the equipment charts as something I can buy. I guess I should be asking the DM and exploring the game world to figure out how I get my hands on some and whether I can make my own"[/I] is a pretty reasonable line of thinking to assume people playing 1E Assassins will naturally have. [/QUOTE]
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