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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7611391" data-attributes="member: 42582">This isn't true. T&amp;T doesn't have a cleric/MU contrast; it is a spell point casting system; it uses group-vs-group combat resolution with no to-hit rolls and armour as a wounds buffer; etc.Saying that T&amp;T differs from D&amp;D only in terms of presentation is like saying that Rolemsater or RQ differs from D&amp;D only in terms of presentation.I'm not 100% sure what a &quot;story-telling game&quot; is - Prince Valiant describes itself as a story-tellling game, but it's clearly a RPG and its mechanics (which are absolutely first-rate) are important to how it plays.But anyway, the idea that the mechanical difference between (say) D&amp;D and T&amp;T don't matter to the play experience strikes me as a pretty ridiculous claim.Maybe I've misunderstood this, but I think you're saying something I agree with: in 4e the maths/stats of PCs and creatures aren't models of anything. They're mechanical elements to be used in a mechanical process for determining outcomes.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7611391, member: 42582"] This isn't true. T&T doesn't have a cleric/MU contrast; it is a spell point casting system; it uses group-vs-group combat resolution with no to-hit rolls and armour as a wounds buffer; etc. Saying that T&T differs from D&D only in terms of presentation is like saying that Rolemsater or RQ differs from D&D only in terms of presentation. I'm not 100% sure what a "story-telling game" is - Prince Valiant describes itself as a story-tellling game, but it's clearly a RPG and its mechanics (which are absolutely first-rate) are important to how it plays. But anyway, the idea that the mechanical difference between (say) D&D and T&T don't matter to the play experience strikes me as a pretty ridiculous claim. Maybe I've misunderstood this, but I think you're saying something I agree with: in 4e the maths/stats of PCs and creatures aren't [I]models[/I] of anything. They're mechanical elements to be used in a mechanical process for determining outcomes. [/QUOTE]

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