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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 8592151" data-attributes="member: 20564"><p>I find nothing wrong with 5e Monster books, and quite enjoy ones like Volo's. But 13th Age's Bestiary and Bestiary 2 were simply the best monster books I've read for any fantasy RPG. Let me give an example using the White Dragon entry.</p><p></p><p>In the setting "The White" (the progenitor? of white dragons) has been killed and made into a dracolich of incredible power in an earlier Age, unlike The Red, The Blue, The Black, etc. Myth said that in order to do it, the moon was literally pulled down on-top of them, but who knows the truth.</p><p></p><p>The lore description about white dragons (and everything else) is succinct while dripping with flavor and potential plot hooks. It can talk about motivations and otherwise give ideas where and why to use each of the monsters. For White Dragons we get information about how they are Evil but Desperate without The White and how it affects their relations with other dragons, how they have taken upon themselves to be keepers of the dead (and how if the proper rituals are not said over graveyards and battlefields by priests, white dragons, or someone, we could get lots of undead). Right here we're already getting ideas like players allied with a White Dragon against undead and the forces of the Lich King, even though normally they would be on opposite sides. And that some whites are Given to the Moon and believe a new The White could ascend through that.</p><p></p><p>13th Age is a d20 and the monsters in the core book are reminiscent of D&D counterparts - enough that there is a level of familiarity. But the Bestiaries do not hold themself to that limitation. So while we have some familiar starts to white dragons in the core book, the White Dragon entry in the Bestiary has Cenotaph Dragons, Mausoleum Dragons, Moon Dragons, as well as more expected ones like Hatchlings and Blizzard Dragons. Not just dragons but every monster entry has several variations in role, power, or focus. And it contains monsters that are not derivative of D&D at all, yet gives enough to be familiar with them and how to use them.</p><p></p><p>There's a dedicated section on building encounters for each, including who else would be found in their company. But even here it's adventure ideas. "Blizzard dragons sometimes hire themselves out to Frost Giant jarls..." or "During harvest moons, Moon Dragons become infused with power and are more aggressive. During lunar eclipses, their either hide away in agony, or are overcome by short-term insanity..."</p><p></p><p>13th Age has an Icon system that all PCs are connected to in positive, negative or "it's complicated" sort of ways, and all of the entries also list ways that they can interact with various related icons, positively or negatively. As the machinations of the Icons are the big movers and shakers, many an adventure can find strange bedfellows in service for or against a particular Icon.</p><p></p><p>And finally, in case that wasn't enough, a dedicated section of adventure hooks for each entry type.</p><p></p><p>In my opinion, these books are made first and foremost to support a game about adventuring. Yes the ecology and such will hang together as well as every other monster book, but this really goes out of it's way to be upfront and explicit with things for the DM to make adventures starring these monsters. It knows it's role is not to solely present monster information but to provide monsters in a workable and logical way to support an adventuring RPG. And it covers that focus very well.</p><p></p><p>In addition, because the writing is so thick with "that's awesome" and juicy hooks, I am entertained just reading through the book. It's not going to give me the detail of a whole chapter on the Hags like Volo's, it's painted with a broader brush that hits the same highlights in a page and a half and leaves the details for a particular table. Which, to be fair is also a description of how they detail their campaign setting. And with that comes that instead of just a couple of chapters of depth, each and every entry gets those highlights.</p><p></p><p>To sum up, for me it has the right balance of all of the pertinent details without filler, with a focus on parts that are germane and useful to a game about adventuring, and provides more explicit DM tools than any other fantasy monster catalog I've read.</p><p></p><p>So I'm quite happy with Volo's and Mordy's and the like. Good books. But the bar for the best monster manual is set very high for me from my experience with the 13th Age Bestiaries.</p><p></p><p><em>Disclosure: I kickstarted 13th Age Core book and both Bestiaries, so I am self-selected as their target audience.</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blue, post: 8592151, member: 20564"] I find nothing wrong with 5e Monster books, and quite enjoy ones like Volo's. But 13th Age's Bestiary and Bestiary 2 were simply the best monster books I've read for any fantasy RPG. Let me give an example using the White Dragon entry. In the setting "The White" (the progenitor? of white dragons) has been killed and made into a dracolich of incredible power in an earlier Age, unlike The Red, The Blue, The Black, etc. Myth said that in order to do it, the moon was literally pulled down on-top of them, but who knows the truth. The lore description about white dragons (and everything else) is succinct while dripping with flavor and potential plot hooks. It can talk about motivations and otherwise give ideas where and why to use each of the monsters. For White Dragons we get information about how they are Evil but Desperate without The White and how it affects their relations with other dragons, how they have taken upon themselves to be keepers of the dead (and how if the proper rituals are not said over graveyards and battlefields by priests, white dragons, or someone, we could get lots of undead). Right here we're already getting ideas like players allied with a White Dragon against undead and the forces of the Lich King, even though normally they would be on opposite sides. And that some whites are Given to the Moon and believe a new The White could ascend through that. 13th Age is a d20 and the monsters in the core book are reminiscent of D&D counterparts - enough that there is a level of familiarity. But the Bestiaries do not hold themself to that limitation. So while we have some familiar starts to white dragons in the core book, the White Dragon entry in the Bestiary has Cenotaph Dragons, Mausoleum Dragons, Moon Dragons, as well as more expected ones like Hatchlings and Blizzard Dragons. Not just dragons but every monster entry has several variations in role, power, or focus. And it contains monsters that are not derivative of D&D at all, yet gives enough to be familiar with them and how to use them. There's a dedicated section on building encounters for each, including who else would be found in their company. But even here it's adventure ideas. "Blizzard dragons sometimes hire themselves out to Frost Giant jarls..." or "During harvest moons, Moon Dragons become infused with power and are more aggressive. During lunar eclipses, their either hide away in agony, or are overcome by short-term insanity..." 13th Age has an Icon system that all PCs are connected to in positive, negative or "it's complicated" sort of ways, and all of the entries also list ways that they can interact with various related icons, positively or negatively. As the machinations of the Icons are the big movers and shakers, many an adventure can find strange bedfellows in service for or against a particular Icon. And finally, in case that wasn't enough, a dedicated section of adventure hooks for each entry type. In my opinion, these books are made first and foremost to support a game about adventuring. Yes the ecology and such will hang together as well as every other monster book, but this really goes out of it's way to be upfront and explicit with things for the DM to make adventures starring these monsters. It knows it's role is not to solely present monster information but to provide monsters in a workable and logical way to support an adventuring RPG. And it covers that focus very well. In addition, because the writing is so thick with "that's awesome" and juicy hooks, I am entertained just reading through the book. It's not going to give me the detail of a whole chapter on the Hags like Volo's, it's painted with a broader brush that hits the same highlights in a page and a half and leaves the details for a particular table. Which, to be fair is also a description of how they detail their campaign setting. And with that comes that instead of just a couple of chapters of depth, each and every entry gets those highlights. To sum up, for me it has the right balance of all of the pertinent details without filler, with a focus on parts that are germane and useful to a game about adventuring, and provides more explicit DM tools than any other fantasy monster catalog I've read. So I'm quite happy with Volo's and Mordy's and the like. Good books. But the bar for the best monster manual is set very high for me from my experience with the 13th Age Bestiaries. [I]Disclosure: I kickstarted 13th Age Core book and both Bestiaries, so I am self-selected as their target audience.[/I] [/QUOTE]
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