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"Fear of Monsters" back into 4th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Igwilly" data-source="post: 7214637" data-attributes="member: 6801225"><p>Answer:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not so quite. </p><p>As I’ve said, you can raise or lower difficulty as you want, but default expectations matter. The very book suggests that most of the encounters should be at even level. That’s not the problem. The problem is even-level challenges are too easy. The game just assumes even-level challenges are median mode (as they should be), but they’re not. I order to get even a median mode game, you need to go outside the expectations. This can be very confusing to new DMs, or people simply picking up the new edition, or a system they’ve never seen.</p><p>Yes, DMs in all editions have a lot of space to change things. I’m just dealing with default expectations because, if one expectation is more common above all others, is the default one. So yes, it is perfectly possible to have a difficult 4e. It just that this is not apparent and every encounter must be level +3 or so (and this tends to get worse in high level).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It’s not even about magic: magic can be quite hard to do, even in D&D. These solutions are too easy and accessible, that’s the problem.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I did not said that. What I’m saying is that even-level challenges in 4e are too easy.</p><p>True, in 4e you can predict very accurately if a giving encounter will be easy or difficult. This is tremendously useful. However: 1) You have to adjust the metric. Even-level is not median. 2) It was not without cost.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The fear of being killed. This is the most important and powerful of all fears. Monsters in folklore, myth and such usually are feared because of that or something equivalent (being turned to stone, being stuck in a bottle forever…) I would say it’s the most legit fear.</p><p>Moreover, you seen to misunderstand these difficult monsters. The goal is not to always run, but to face these monsters as a bigger, risky thing to do. What I (well, my PC) would do if I know I must kill this beholder/big bad monster or otherwise (insert plot reason here)? Prepare my group and myself, investigate its weaknesses, optimize (in game-term here) our efficiency to deal with those weaknesses, and come up with a plan.</p><p>I know many people think it’s heresy to bring stuff from video-games, but here I go: In the electronic RPG field, in at least some fandoms, an well-known term is the Superboss. An optional, stupidly difficult encounter created just to be a huge challenge to players with end game characters. Those who defeat them gain cause for bragging rights. Moreover, in some games but not in others, normal bosses are already hard to defeat, and optional bosses, even more so. This is popular among video-game players, especially the more “hard-core” ones. This thing should happen with nasty monsters in D&D.</p><p>Although I do think that 1e went too overboard with all poisons being Save or Die. I prefer other methods of dealing with poison.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Igwilly, post: 7214637, member: 6801225"] Answer: Not so quite. As I’ve said, you can raise or lower difficulty as you want, but default expectations matter. The very book suggests that most of the encounters should be at even level. That’s not the problem. The problem is even-level challenges are too easy. The game just assumes even-level challenges are median mode (as they should be), but they’re not. I order to get even a median mode game, you need to go outside the expectations. This can be very confusing to new DMs, or people simply picking up the new edition, or a system they’ve never seen. Yes, DMs in all editions have a lot of space to change things. I’m just dealing with default expectations because, if one expectation is more common above all others, is the default one. So yes, it is perfectly possible to have a difficult 4e. It just that this is not apparent and every encounter must be level +3 or so (and this tends to get worse in high level). It’s not even about magic: magic can be quite hard to do, even in D&D. These solutions are too easy and accessible, that’s the problem. I did not said that. What I’m saying is that even-level challenges in 4e are too easy. True, in 4e you can predict very accurately if a giving encounter will be easy or difficult. This is tremendously useful. However: 1) You have to adjust the metric. Even-level is not median. 2) It was not without cost. The fear of being killed. This is the most important and powerful of all fears. Monsters in folklore, myth and such usually are feared because of that or something equivalent (being turned to stone, being stuck in a bottle forever…) I would say it’s the most legit fear. Moreover, you seen to misunderstand these difficult monsters. The goal is not to always run, but to face these monsters as a bigger, risky thing to do. What I (well, my PC) would do if I know I must kill this beholder/big bad monster or otherwise (insert plot reason here)? Prepare my group and myself, investigate its weaknesses, optimize (in game-term here) our efficiency to deal with those weaknesses, and come up with a plan. I know many people think it’s heresy to bring stuff from video-games, but here I go: In the electronic RPG field, in at least some fandoms, an well-known term is the Superboss. An optional, stupidly difficult encounter created just to be a huge challenge to players with end game characters. Those who defeat them gain cause for bragging rights. Moreover, in some games but not in others, normal bosses are already hard to defeat, and optional bosses, even more so. This is popular among video-game players, especially the more “hard-core” ones. This thing should happen with nasty monsters in D&D. Although I do think that 1e went too overboard with all poisons being Save or Die. I prefer other methods of dealing with poison. [/QUOTE]
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