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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7215398" data-attributes="member: 82106">I think we're just talking past each other. In 1e a 1HD orc is the equivalent of a 'level 1 monster' but a group of those equal in number to the party is nothing like a big challenge under normal circumstances. The PCs will defeat them with some expenditure of resources and perhaps some injury, but they will be defeated and the group will go on. This is much like a 4e at-level encounter. You see the parallel? I don't think in ANY EDITION that 'stock' encounters that are considered baseline are really a huge threat. In 'classic' D&D the possibility, at low levels anyway, was greater, since PCs were one unlucky weapon blow from death even at full strength, but then you had rather easily accessible cures for that, hirelings, henchmen, Sleep, etc. that would let you control the actual risk if deployed with any intelligence (and that's not even counting ambushes, flaming oil, using traps against monsters, and other clever ploys that are quite easily engaged). Well, I'm not sure what is hard about AD&D magic, for example, and 3.x magic is pretty trivial in almost all cases. 4e and 5e magic no more so. There are sometimes non-magical fixes as well, or more likely preventatives, but in any case they are not that hard to enact, so we aren't in disagreement here. This is why I say that really you need plot device kinds of curses and effects.Meh, I entirely disagree. Death is trivial. Either the PC is low level and easily replaced (particularly in the troupe play oriented classic versions of D&D), or you're in a higher level situation where raising is quite accessible and other preventatives are often feasible (Contingency and such for example can be quite effective).Eh, sure, but classic D&D is replete with insta-ganks and random encounters. It isn't exactly built around the sort of thing you're talking about, though it is an element that you can use. My point is you can do the same thing in any edition, including 4e. You simply have to DO it, and 4e's mechanical elegance lends itself well to creating these kinds of stories. It isn't exactly like they came right out and told us this was an expected way to run 4e, so I certainly don't think the game couldn't be improved a lot on this point, but its at least quite possible.</blockquote>

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