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"Fear of Monsters" back into 4th Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="MoutonRustique" data-source="post: 7216776" data-attributes="member: 22362"><p>1st potential solution : save DC is now 15</p><p></p><p>2nd potential solution : (save ends) is now (until the end of the encounter), <em>but</em> you can use an appropriate standard action to remove the condition</p><p></p><p>3rd potential solution : conditions now all use a variation on the [disease track]</p><p></p><p>4th potential solution : conditions don't end by themselves. A character can spend a large amount of hp to remove it.</p><p>4.1th potential solution : ... spend a [HS] to remove it.</p><p>4.2th potential solution : spend a (lesser) amount of hp to <em>ignore</em> the condition for a round.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This one... is harder for me to figure out without going full-on "gamist". Maybe I'll get an idea latter...</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is something I also, personally really like - I <em>liked</em> the "golf-bag" of PlaneScape! Bonus : it's really easy to implement in 4e! You just go by power source!</p><p></p><p>Can't cast spells at [golems], they're invulnerable to [arcane], [divine] and [primal] attacks - when the interaction would be kind of weird (against a Barbarians axe-swing, for example), it's easy to say the resulting effect is the same as a [melee/ranged weapon basic attack] !</p><p></p><p>Ghosts can't be hit : [immune] to [martial] attacks, or [untyped] damage, or anything else.</p><p></p><p></p><p>We can turn to 13th Age here - have it be a sort of aura (or an <em>actual</em> aura - say aura 20) where, if you don't grant the target full concealment against you, you suffer the gaze effect (or an attack from the gaze).</p><p></p><p>You could easily give the "gazing" creature a "touch" range standard action attack where it imposes the effects of its gaze on a creature that avoided it's gaze - to simulate the creature actively "getting in your face".</p><p></p><p></p><p>We can take a cue from 5e here - "permanent" hp reduction, as well as "permanent" HS count reduction. These are effects NO ONE would find trivial!</p><p></p><p>If you wanted a form of "power-loss curse", you could make it so the first [daily] attack power also costs a [HS] to use - signifying the target's reduction in power. You could even have it affect only the player's strongest attack (perhaps affecting more and more powers as the player gains more and more "negative-levels" to take from 3e)</p><p></p><p> You can have them as-is : force a save, failed = you die. Or, set a DC at 20+ attack bonus and have the player roll a "Defense save" (d20+Fort/Ref/Will)</p><p></p><p></p><p>1st potential poison : use a variant of the [disease track] (perhaps one where you start at the bottom and can't fall back down)</p><p></p><p>2nd potential poison : (save ends) is simply (until you're cured). This makes anti-toxins (mundane and magical) a priority!</p><p></p><p>3rd potential poison : (save ends) is morphed into (endurance halves), so that ongoing 10 poison (save ends) will deal 10, and then 5, and then 2, and then 1, and then be negated (assuming all successful Endurance checks). With this, you could also tie the secondary effects to how much damage the creature suffered - making it feel really "organic".</p><p></p><p>4th potential poison : poison doesn't inflict hp, only conditions and [HS] loss.</p><p></p><p>5th potential poison : poisons don't have effects until they are failed against (but otherwise "permanent") making them.</p><p></p><p>Pretty much everything discussed means taking into account how strong you want the effects to be, on prevalent you're making them, what it does to the action economy, what impacts with [resistance] and such, and etc. Nothing that can't be done, but something that needs to be thought about a bit - depending on the road chosen!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MoutonRustique, post: 7216776, member: 22362"] 1st potential solution : save DC is now 15 2nd potential solution : (save ends) is now (until the end of the encounter), [I]but[/I] you can use an appropriate standard action to remove the condition 3rd potential solution : conditions now all use a variation on the [disease track] 4th potential solution : conditions don't end by themselves. A character can spend a large amount of hp to remove it. 4.1th potential solution : ... spend a [HS] to remove it. 4.2th potential solution : spend a (lesser) amount of hp to [I]ignore[/I] the condition for a round. This one... is harder for me to figure out without going full-on "gamist". Maybe I'll get an idea latter... This is something I also, personally really like - I [I]liked[/I] the "golf-bag" of PlaneScape! Bonus : it's really easy to implement in 4e! You just go by power source! Can't cast spells at [golems], they're invulnerable to [arcane], [divine] and [primal] attacks - when the interaction would be kind of weird (against a Barbarians axe-swing, for example), it's easy to say the resulting effect is the same as a [melee/ranged weapon basic attack] ! Ghosts can't be hit : [immune] to [martial] attacks, or [untyped] damage, or anything else. We can turn to 13th Age here - have it be a sort of aura (or an [I]actual[/I] aura - say aura 20) where, if you don't grant the target full concealment against you, you suffer the gaze effect (or an attack from the gaze). You could easily give the "gazing" creature a "touch" range standard action attack where it imposes the effects of its gaze on a creature that avoided it's gaze - to simulate the creature actively "getting in your face". We can take a cue from 5e here - "permanent" hp reduction, as well as "permanent" HS count reduction. These are effects NO ONE would find trivial! If you wanted a form of "power-loss curse", you could make it so the first [daily] attack power also costs a [HS] to use - signifying the target's reduction in power. You could even have it affect only the player's strongest attack (perhaps affecting more and more powers as the player gains more and more "negative-levels" to take from 3e) You can have them as-is : force a save, failed = you die. Or, set a DC at 20+ attack bonus and have the player roll a "Defense save" (d20+Fort/Ref/Will) 1st potential poison : use a variant of the [disease track] (perhaps one where you start at the bottom and can't fall back down) 2nd potential poison : (save ends) is simply (until you're cured). This makes anti-toxins (mundane and magical) a priority! 3rd potential poison : (save ends) is morphed into (endurance halves), so that ongoing 10 poison (save ends) will deal 10, and then 5, and then 2, and then 1, and then be negated (assuming all successful Endurance checks). With this, you could also tie the secondary effects to how much damage the creature suffered - making it feel really "organic". 4th potential poison : poison doesn't inflict hp, only conditions and [HS] loss. 5th potential poison : poisons don't have effects until they are failed against (but otherwise "permanent") making them. Pretty much everything discussed means taking into account how strong you want the effects to be, on prevalent you're making them, what it does to the action economy, what impacts with [resistance] and such, and etc. Nothing that can't be done, but something that needs to be thought about a bit - depending on the road chosen! [/QUOTE]
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