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<blockquote data-quote="Spatzimaus" data-source="post: 461459" data-attributes="member: 3051">Unless the person knows where you are it's a sneak attack.&nbsp; If I attack and hide in the same round I do so at -20 to the hide. &quot;If people are observing you, even casually, you can't hide&quot;.&nbsp; If you just fired at me, I'm going to be observing you.&nbsp; That -20 to Hide in plain sight rule was from Song and Silence, not the core books, as far as I know.&nbsp; There's been enough discussions on that one on this board.Unless you can retreat to where I can't see you or you Bluff me (which according to the PHB is a full-round action requiring interaction between the two people), you won't be able to Hide.&nbsp; Even if you DO manage to distract me long enough to hide it's at a -10 penalty (PHB, p. 69)You could feint with Bluff skill as a standard action to deny my DEX AC, but unless you're hasted that'd still leave you unable to attack that roundWEll, if I'm 100ft away from my target he has -20 to spot me.Spot is -1 per 10', so 100 feet away is only -10 to the skill check.And the deal with ammo needing to be invisible would be a House Rule. Invisibility spell description (PHB p. 218, second paragraph: &quot;Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible...Any part of an item that the subject carries but that extends more than 10 feet from it becomes visible&quot;So, by that logic, an arrow should become visible immediately upon leaving the bow (as soon as it's not in contact), and definitely after it gets 10' away.&nbsp; Either way, if you're firing from hundreds of feet away it should be visible for most of the flight time.(With a good magical bow and the right feat, I can hit from half a mile away; if my target knows I'm firing at him, would he still be denied his DEX?)Now, EB's reason is valid; it's a balance issue arising from not being able to close the distance.&nbsp; However, the fact that it'll only really affect the first attack isn't too bad.&nbsp; On the other hand, I'd worry about the Favored Enemy bonus; oh wait, did I just say Rangers were overpowered?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Spatzimaus, post: 461459, member: 3051"] [B]Unless the person knows where you are it's a sneak attack. If I attack and hide in the same round I do so at -20 to the hide. [/B] "If people are observing you, even casually, you can't hide". If you just fired at me, I'm going to be observing you. That -20 to Hide in plain sight rule was from Song and Silence, not the core books, as far as I know. There's been enough discussions on that one on this board. Unless you can retreat to where I can't see you or you Bluff me (which according to the PHB is a full-round action requiring interaction between the two people), you won't be able to Hide. Even if you DO manage to distract me long enough to hide it's at a -10 penalty (PHB, p. 69) You could feint with Bluff skill as a standard action to deny my DEX AC, but unless you're hasted that'd still leave you unable to attack that round [B]WEll, if I'm 100ft away from my target he has -20 to spot me.[/B] Spot is -1 per 10', so 100 feet away is only -10 to the skill check. [B]And the deal with ammo needing to be invisible would be a House Rule. [/B] Invisibility spell description (PHB p. 218, second paragraph: "Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible...Any part of an item that the subject carries but that extends more than 10 feet from it becomes visible" So, by that logic, an arrow should become visible immediately upon leaving the bow (as soon as it's not in contact), and definitely after it gets 10' away. Either way, if you're firing from hundreds of feet away it should be visible for most of the flight time. (With a good magical bow and the right feat, I can hit from half a mile away; if my target knows I'm firing at him, would he still be denied his DEX?) Now, EB's reason is valid; it's a balance issue arising from not being able to close the distance. However, the fact that it'll only really affect the first attack isn't too bad. On the other hand, I'd worry about the Favored Enemy bonus; oh wait, did I just say Rangers were overpowered? [/QUOTE]

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