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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ZuulMoG" data-source="post: 2307396" data-attributes="member: 32135">You are absolutely right, hence the re-write and re-titling of the feats.  If one can learn to improve fighting defensively via Combat Expertise (CE), there's no logical reason why one can't continue to improve at it with practice.  Adding a +2 bonus for Greater CE, and a +4 for Epic CE to Disarm, Feint, and Trip attacks also makes sense and would make this feat chain worth pursuing for finesse fighters, and especially for monks, who have to spread their ability score increases out through 4 scores. Once you've completed the Whirlwind Attack chain, CE pretty much languishes, and given all of the fantasy literature out there, that just seems wrong.  Not every heroic fantasy fighter was a Power Attack tank, in point of fact, few if any were, and only a few that I can recall, mostly barbarians: Conan, Chert, and Wulfgar.  Ffahrd was probably a Cleaver too, but dollars to donuts the Grey Mouser had at least Greater Combat Expertise, and probably Gord and Drizzt too.  Don't even get me started on Inigo and Westley!!  Now Aragorn was likely a master of most all of the feat chains, but it's rather obvious from his depiction that he was an Epic character, and it makes sense for an epic dude to have some versatility. So, that gives us... Greater Combat ExpertiseHaving studied your Cappa-Faire, your unarmored AC benefits more effectively from the Fight Defensively option.Pre-requisites: BAB +11, Combat Expertise, DodgeBenefit: When using Combat Expertise for defense while wearing no armor, you gain a 1.5 point Dodge bonus to AC for every point of attack sacrificed each round (rounded down), instead of the 1:1 bonus normally granted by Combat Expertise. If you do not use Combat Expertise for defense, you gain a +2 shield bonus when armed with a melee weapon, or you double the shield bonus of your shield (not counting enhancement bonuses).  You also gain a +2 competence bonus to contested rolls for Disarm, Feint, and Trip attacks.Epic Combat ExpertiseHaving studied your Agrippa, your unarmored AC benefits even more effectively from the Fight Defensively option.Pre-requisites: Epic attack bonus +1, Combat Expertise, Greater Combat Expertise, DodgeBenefit: When using Combat Expertise for defense while wearing no armor, you gain a 2-point Dodge bonus to AC for every point of attack sacrificed each round, instead of the 1:1 bonus normally granted by Combat Expertise. If you do not use Combat Expertise for defense, you gain a +4 shield bonus when armed with a melee weapon, or you triple the shield bonus of your shield (not counting enhancement bonuses).  You also gain a +4 competence bonus to contested rolls for Disarm, Feint, and Trip attacks.Of course, now this really is Improved Metamagic for fighters.  Perhaps the bonus to Disarm, Feint, and Trip resolutions should only be available to those who have the associated feats?  Yeah, makes sense.  It's a beastly huge chain of feats, but at least it gives the fencers and swashbucklers something to take after Whirlwind Attack instead of wasting feats on Power Attack with their piddly Strength scores.</blockquote>

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