Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 8649674" data-attributes="member: 7006">The way I have always interpreted Crawford's Passive Perception explanation is thus:Assuming a DM is using the passive perception rules (like I do)... If someone is hiding, the first thing the DM does when the PCs show up is check their passive perceptions.  If their PPs are higher than the DEX (Stealth) check of the creature hiding, then the PCs notice the creature.  This is their "general awareness" or "danger sense" or "intuitiveness" or however you wish to describe it narratively.  That sense we all kind of have when we just like subconsciously perhaps think something isn't right or something's odd when we enter an area.Now if their PPs are lower than the check, then they didn't notice anything off-hand.  At that point it is then up to the players to decide or feel like there might be something to see, and thus they can say they begin actively searching the area.  At that point the DM can have them roll WIS (Perception) checks for their searching.  Now because the DM has already checked for Passive Perception-- which is 10 plus WIS and/or proficiency bonus... any Perception check rolls the players make that roll less than 10 on the die do not matter because the DM has already indicated that they didn't find anything (because the passive perception would have already picked it up.)That's the idea of the "floor"-- when you roll a Perception check after the DM has already determined Passive Perception found nothing... the only rolls that matter are the ones that are over 10, because those are the rolls that will give you higher results than what your Passive Perception gave you.  Rolling under a 10 on the die just means your active searching wasn't any better than your "initial impression" you got of the area when you first arrived.  You can't do "worse" than a 10, because that 10 was assumed when the DM checked Passive Perception.  As a player, you know that if you rolled a 9 or less, that if there is something there to be found it's Stealth check needs to have been higher than your Passive number.Now does the rogue's 'Reliable Talent' feature not give you anything for Perception or Investigation checks if the DM uses Passive Perception (or Passive Investigation)?  Yeah, I think you could make that claim (since the 10 you'd automatically get on the Perception check roll through Reliable Talent is the same 10 you get automatically from Passive abilities).  But the advantage of Reliable Talent of course is that this gives ALL of the Rogue's proficient skills essentially the same effect as Passive Perception and Passive Investigation.  That "free 10" on your check.  The difference being that the DM won't make those other checks for you just for showing up in the area (unlike Perception and/or Investigation), you'd still have to say you were doing something to warrant the DM telling you to make a check.</blockquote>

Verification