Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="DuganCM" data-source="post: 5153591" data-attributes="member: 89431">A tiered system makes things easy in character creation, but does nothing for actual play and you still need an objective system by which to judge what feats are considered "Heroic" "Paragon" and "Epic". An example: In which tier does the Fly spell belong?- What level do you want players to have access to it? Probably 5th. That means it's "Heroic" tier, but we don't want 1st level characters getting it. So we have to make the system more granular.- What if we had tiers every 2 levels after the first (the Spell Level mechanic)? That makes things easier, Fly fits right in at the beginning of tier 3, but it doesn't solve the real problem with tiers because there will be spells that don't fit neatly into the progression.- What if every level is its own tier? Now we might as well just give Fly a character level requirement. That's what tiers are, a fancy name for arbitrary level requirements. It breaks immersion and that's a big no-no for a fantasy game. Why can't a character cast Fly until 5th level?Besides, don't we want things to be a little more flexible? I do. How do we do that? Three ways:1. A point system whereby players gain points every level to spent on feats rated by power. In this case the rate of point gain (by level) determines rate of power gain. (You can't cast Fly because you're not powerful enough, or you managed your points poorly)2. Non, or pseudo, level-based prerequisites (skill ranks, BAB, etc.) as a barrier to entry for  those abilities we don't want gotten too early or by the wrong classes. In this case the character's focus (level limited) determines rate of power gain. (You can't cast Fly because you're not skilled enough at magic)3. Scaling feats based on a level-related stat. In this case power gain is static across all feats. (You can't cast Fly yet because you're not skilled enough, but you can cast Jump and Feather Fall, and next level you'll get Levitate)The design goal here is to constrain all characters' options and power by level, so the game is fair, without looking like we are, because that feels arbitrary to the player. ('Cause it is, oh well. That's games for you.)So, you decide at what level you want a given kind of option (spell, feat, skill trick, maneuver, etc.) available relative to other options and their power, then assign a prerequisite you know they won't be able to meet until at least that level (spell level >.<, skill rank, BAB, ability score, etc.).Then you decide how fast you want a character to gain new options or increase the power of those options and create a system to support it (spell slots, power points, bonus feats, etc.).The key however, is to make this progression smooth so the player feels like he is always gaining new, different options and power with each level, without making previous options obsolete. Then you can give DMs simple variant rules and guidelines on how to adjust the power level of their games.I don't see a problem with character creation and leveling being complex as long as actual play is simple and fast paced. I dislike the tier system of 4e because it moves in the opposite design direction from what I want my games to be like and pulls the power to change things out of the hands of DMs. (You're either "Heroic" or "Paragon", there is no in-between)>.<: I hate redundant terminology, it causes so much confusion in my players and obfuscation of the rules!</blockquote>

Verification