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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5531436" data-attributes="member: 2011">Look closer.The weapon users only have the exact same to hit chance IF:1) They do not have a +3 proficient weapon, and2) They do not have weapon talent (this is more rare because only a few classes get it).That's +2 to hit there for some weapon users that's available every single attack and it doesn't cost them a feat or a power.In addition to that, the weapon users can get +1 for charge and/or +2 for combat advantage most rounds. The implement user can almost never get +1 for charge.Right out of the box, the weapon users can have a +1 or +2 to hit PLUS they can gain another +1 to +3 some rounds.The implement users have NONE of these options (except for a rare CA). They can have the same 45% chance to hit at level 30, or they might be as much as 25% less. All of those bonuses to hit are also in the control of the player of the weapon user.So if an implement user takes Expertise, he can basically be 60% to hit whereas without Expertise, the weapon user can be 55% to 80% to hit.Just to stay in the same ballpark, the implement user has to pay the feat tax for Expertise. That's the difference.If the high to hit weapon user takes Expertise, the implement user cannot catch up, even with taking Superior Implement Accurate and Expertise.</blockquote>