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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5545396" data-attributes="member: 61155">That the base math is different at higher levels is an objective things. That the number of powers is different at higher levels is an objective things.  What the combination of these two elements says about the effective power level of the PCs at either level is not an objective fact, and reasonable people can have entirely different interpretations of how those two elements interact.   Well, no, but I'm not especially invested in Monopoly. But I'll tell you what I did do! See, also early in 4E, there was a big commotion about how the Skill DCs were too high for Skill Challenges (primarily due to those DCs also being used for Skill Stunts, and the presence of a footnote that increased the DC table specifically for skills.) WotC responded with a new table that both lowered the DCs and removed the footnote. And I felt the DCs were now too low. And when they put out a series of columns on Skill Challenges, I typically pointed out whenever they adjusted for this, as those articles tended to use higher DCs than the standard - and the designers continued to insist that, no, the lower DCs were what they wanted the standard to be.  Until, you know, they fixed them. And started using DCs pretty much spot on with what I and others already used.  So... yeah, I tend to trust game designers more than random folks off the street, but that doesn't make them infallible.   I think it might be the other way around. Or, rather, than you cannot disconnect the objective information you have (the math) from the conclusion you are drawing (the system is flawed).  My point of contension is that you cannot isolate those two elements and ignore all other elements of the game, and that by doing so, you are coming to a faulty conclusion.   Problem is, that math isn't extensive enough. It is a bunch of math done without accounting for pretty much any power choices, items, feats, paragon paths, etc, that PCs are taking advantage of. No one has run the math for every combination of options, nor are we capable of determing what the most commonly chosen options among all groups might be.  Trying to pretend this is clearcut, and handwaving that most powers just 'add some damage' that is accounted for in increased monster hp... sorry, I don't agree.</blockquote>

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