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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Argyle King" data-source="post: 5553652" data-attributes="member: 58416">Like I said in that previous post, those were not very good bonuses at all I was assuming, and again a solo 4 levels higher.Let's also look at things such as ye olde Sure Strike from PHB1.  Currently, it is viewed as a terrible at-will power.  However, in the needing a 20 example, it becomes a lot more useful; it has a purpose instead of being a 'red choice' as it now is.  I'd like to believe the designers didn't create powers of that nature with the intention to be trick choices; I'd like to believe they were added to the game for a reason - having an easier time hitting being the reason.Again, I'll also say that example was using a very tough foe and also giving the PCs crap bonus - which has the net result of meaning that a horribly built collection of PCs against a solo several levels higher can hit, but will have a difficult time ending the fight quickly.Also, those characters would not move and do nothing.  The first character could move *and* use a buff which gives the next person a bonus... meaning he's granting flanking and the buff.  Alternatively, he could flank *and* use aid another on the same turn.  That's one character granting +4 to his allies without even using a power.I'm not saying to not choose Expertise.  Whether or not I feel Expertise was necessarily needed, the fact is that there's no reason to ever not take Expertise feats.  My main point with saying anything else was just to express that I reliably hit before Expertise already; now, with it, I have characters (one I played tonight actually - Eladrin Barbarian McFighter) who are able to hit on low single digit rolls.I'm also not saying that I feel 4th Edition math was perfect right out of the gate.  I wholly agree there were some flaws to the design.  I'm just not convinced that feats were needed to fix the problems.  I'm even less convinced that Expertise was the way to go.</blockquote>

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