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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 5558580" data-attributes="member: 67338">ok, I may be wrong (I still do not belive I am) but you sir are a rude mean spirited person... I am sick and tired of personal things comeing up... but lets try your way...earth is round is a fact... it is not math...but people in space (astrnuts) can see it that way, satalitels work that way...math whole is math theory NOT A FACT... stop claiming you won mid arguement.wrong you do all the math theory you want... play testing in large numbers trumps theory... and 3 or so years of playing by atleast a thousand groups is worth way more then numbers ever will...   You can't make a cement boat, you can;t blow your own sail. you can;t hit at epic... all fine in theory but in pratice you CAN build a cement boat (someone did) you can blow your own sail (last night on mythbusters) you can hit at epic and play fien with out expertise...so my mythbuster anogoly that you don't like is a great example of ignoreing what you don't like... didn't you say something about people like that???so just to be sure on this... Some of the developers are dumb and not worthy of quoteing or listening to... but the devs agree with you... <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/worried.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":-S" title="Uhm    :-S" data-shortname=":-S" /> that is the most crazy thing I ever read...Um soldier, lurker and other each have diffrent ACs Level+Xok, so starting with a 16 str as a warlord with a battle axe is wrong???It is funny but no matter what anyone says you say that...so then how did the game work for the year after phb 1 before phb2?see I still dont see it... they listen to people complain ad adjust it... but they also listen to people who like me say I don't want PCs getting more to hit without spending feats...they are walking the tight rope trying to keep everyone happy...and failingnow about the math:lets go back here to my post...pg 184 dmg1  brute and artillary have AC Level +12 so 42 at 30th levelLurker, skirisher, and controler have an AC of Level+14 so 44 at 30th levelSoldiers have Level +16 so 46 at 30th levelI also belive that Monsters have a small range that things are in flux (and in our home games we play with it a bit) so the range of 42-46 come from level 30 monstersat level 30 a PC with +36 is possible, and a PC with +30 is possible... even then I belive that if you really go full character op you can get atleast 3 or 4 more...if not more. However I will say 30-36 is a good range for MOST pcs...so PC to hits range from 30-36 and Monster AC is 42-46... so where is my math off??Both PC fight a monster with a 42 AC, one needs a 6 and the other needs a 12...both PCs fight a monster with a 46 AC, one needs a 10 the other needs 16...that math is 100% right...now if you do not want to debate, if you feel there is no debate... why post here at all were we are discussing it?I even keep an open mind... if you can PROVE that all the other variables (items,feats,powers, epic destiny, paragon path, now themes) play in it as well and do not make up the diffrence... then I will relent However I have seen PCs min maxed (with expertise) that need 2 or 3s to miss well the rest of the group ranges from needing 10-14s to hit the same target... so If the feat was built in the min maxed pc would then get a diffrent (the next best most likely) feat and be MORE powerful...and I dont want that.until you can explain to me why a warforged fighter kensi demigod that started with a 20 str and has the warforged feat for a bonus if an ally is adjacent, and a maxed out everything else NEEDS a +4 more..or +3 more or heck even a +1 more to hit...+5 str +1 class +3 prof at level 1 is +9+10 str +2 class (1 fighter 1 kensi)+ 3 prof, +1 feat, +15 level +6 magic=+37 ti hit (check my math) now a soldier of equal level is 46 AC... a soldier 5 levels higher has a 51 (The hardest AC you can ever face)so 46-37 is 9... and 51-37 is 14 (go ahead check my math)tell me what math whole that character faces.... and heck he can (with no leader) try for combat advantage +2... or get rerolls...[sblock=personal experance]sorry I have seen that character in my games. He needs no help...infact he had expertise and was hitting on a 6-11 instead of 9-14...[/sblock]add in leader bonuses... yea...In my home game int eh heroic teir right now I am trying to make a truely scarey enemy for the end game...someone they are seeing now, a god killing warrior who is 'unbeatable' and is about to declairhimself king... I set him as a level 36 elite soldier with the monster build on (Very high) AC... witch gives him a 55...and I think my PCs will be fine with that (although to be fair part of that is a house rule that is why they will be able to handle it, as you see basic PCs would never beat it)</blockquote>

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