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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5558782" data-attributes="member: 61155">Yeah, like I said, I don't expect that to be typical. But PCs are generally getting some other benefits in place of that, and those benefits add up.  And as I've said from the start, I don't know this for sure. That's really been my point - figuring out what the average is, and measuring it, is not something that is easy to do. It's certainly been my experience that PCs acquire capabilities that more than compensate for the number difference. But, as noted, experience really doesn't count for all that much, and I don't think we have any easy way to fully analyze what the average actually is.   I don't really think this is true. If the game is balance on the assumption that PCs will hit 55% of the time, and at Epic levels, with Expertise, they are hitting 80-90% of the time... well, that has an impact. (Presumably that impact involves the DM inventing harder monsters.)  My theory - and I admit it is only that - is that by level 30, of those '4 missing points', PCs have gained 1 point via a direct source (item/Epic Destiny/Paragon Path/feat/etc), have gained 1 effective point via more reliably gaining combat advantage, have gained 1 effective point via encounter powers that provide temporary bonuses to them or penalties to the enemies, and the final 1 point is compensated for by the various other benefits of their higher level encounter/daily powers, whether that be from making multiple attacks or targeting different defenses or so forth.  Now, can you end up with a level 30 character who has not acquired any direct additional bonuses to hit, whose higher level powers only provide some additional Ws and nothing else, and whose party does not feature any powers that provide temporary buffs or debuffs? Yes, it is possible. But I don't think it is any more common - and probably even less common - than the group who has all of that, and hits enemies on a 2+ with multiple rerolls available.   I admit that high level combats do take longer than they should, but generally that is in real world time, not in the actual number of rounds in game. But, again, just in my experience.  But again, I'll readily admit that experiences may be different, and it could be I'm wrong. Maybe monster capabilities do scale more potently than it appears on paper, maybe PC benefits don't always add up. I tend to believe otherwise, based on my own look at the numbers and my own experiences, but I certainly don't believe I've proven it.  I just don't think anyone has proven the opposite side, either. And that's mainly what I've been objecting - the putting forth of a single possibility, a single interpretation, as absolute fact. (Which I don't think is what you've done here, for the record!)</blockquote>

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